Re: Double click - OT rebut

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"Roland Hall" <nobody@nowhere> wrote in message
news:eHpGib$bFHA.2980@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Per your request...

You obviously have way too much time on your hands... seriously. I'm not
going to respond with chapter and verse, there are just a couple of things I
want to point out:

You mentioned some past disagreements with Evertjan, so I take it you
basically concur with my opinion of him. I for one am sick of his
self-appointed guardian of the Usenet crap, he writes more about Netiquitte
than he does the topics themselves. He also has this tendency to be
technically wrong, and the fact that you've disagreed with him in the past
by definition means that you also think this is the case.

Now if he had a long history of actually helping people with their questions
(which would entail being right at least the majority of the time) it
wouldn't be so irritating -- like for instance when Bob Barrows mentions a
point of Netiquitte, it seems totally appropriate to me, partly because he
helps a LOT of people. Further, time after time after time, he's
technically right on the money, and on the rare occaisons that he's not, he
goes out of his way to learn from it. His approach is also substantially
less offensive, but I digress. (Sorry to drag you into this Bob.)

Next point, just today this EXACT same subject was discussed at length in
microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general, sans pissing and moaning about
whether it was on topic. Some of the same solutions I mentioned were
brought-up, including the use of DB constraints, which absolutely fits the
topic here. Point being that what you see so clearly as being OT, may not
seem quite that way to everyone.

Lastly, about my assumptions that you scoffed, didn't you read the reply
closely enough to see that I was right? I reached those assumptions partly
due to the fact that a submit button in a form will not receive ondblclick,
nor will any button that processes onclick. So you're penalizing me for
correctly interpreting his question? Maybe if Evertjan had done so as well,
he would've seen that the question was not entirely off-topic. There is a
definite marriage of server and client-side code, in fact it might be argued
that ASP is nearly useless without a client on the other end to consume its
output. So there's going to be some cross-over discussion, get real with
it.

In closing, I think you should come down off your soap box, and quit
defending someone you know to be abrasive and technically challenged. You
reference past experiences, why do you demand that my comments be restricted
to just the context of this thread? I think it was perfectly clear that I
was speaking historically, so lighten up. If your contention is that taking
such shots is inappropriate on the Usenet, in the general sense I agree --
this guy is a special case though.

And as for Evertjan, he just needs to STFU.


-Mark




> Jeff asked:
>> This has probably been asked 100's of times, but I couldn't find
>> anything on it.
>> Is there a small script of some sort, that would disable the ability
>> to double click a submit button>?
>
> Evertjan said:
> ASP runs serverside and does know noting about clicking.
> Databases under ASP know even less.
>
> I say:
> Other than his grammar, since English is most likely not his native
> language, he is stating fact. Anything involving the user is client-side.
> m.p.inetserver.asp.db has nothing to do with client-side anything and
> there
> is NO client-side ASP. Perhaps MSFT might one day consider ACP (Active
> Client Pages) but for now, this is all we have (ex. ASP.NET - also
> server-side)
>
> Evertjan requested:
> Please ask a apopriate clientside NG.
>
> I say:
> Sounds simple enough. The question is not ASP nor DB related and the OP
> is
> requesting help with a client-side issue. Evertjan didn't ask for a
> response. Jeff could have just posed his question in a client-side NG,
> which everyone, including you has suggested!!! ... and I'm sure we'd all
> be
> a lot happier had he done so. Learn to pick your battles.
>
> Jeff so eloquently said:
> : > Thanks for your NOT SO FRIENDLY response.
>
> I say:
> Point out the first not-so friendly response Evertjan made, Jeff. I'd say
> this is where it went south. You asked for help, you asked in the wrong
> place, someone took the time to respond to you to EDUCATE you, politely
> asked you to ask in an appropriate NG and you tore them a new one. You'll
> notice most others have not responded other than to agree that you're
> being
> ridiculous. You made a mistake. Your appropriate response should have
> been, which is not required, "Thank you."
>
> Jeff said:
> : > I thought, since the form is
> : > written with asp, and it submits to an asp page, and the results are
> : > displayed with asp, that this was the place to ask.
>
> I say:
> And you were wrong. But rather than thank the person who took the time to
> point out the error and suggest a more appropriate place to ask your
> question, which will increase your odds dramatically for getting a
> solution,
> you chose to personally attack the person helping you. Your request and
> your bitch is just as ridiculous if you went to your Dr. and asked him
> about
> lawn care. While he may be able to answer your question, he would most
> likely say, "I have no idea. Why don't you ask a gardener?" So,
> following
> your method of followup, one could only assume it would be similar to,
> "Well, thanks for your NOT SO FRIENDLY response. I thought since you have
> a
> lawn, and you see that lawn everyday, surely you were the person to ask.
> I
> didn't see a sign that read Medical Gardener. I know that most in here,
> if
> there is a solution, would give it. Therefore, I do not accept your
> response, and will wait patiently to see if someone can help me. To which
> the Dr. might reply, "Ok, I misdiagnosed you. You're not sick, you're
> crazy!"
>
> Jeff said:
> : > I didn't see a NG
> : > labled submit buttons.
>
> I say:
> So, you're not only wrong, rude and hot-headed, you're now being an ass.
> How do you get submit buttons NG when Evertjan clearly stated CLIENT-SIDE.
> You don't. It's your attempt at either humor or sarcasm. Neither worked
> well.
>
> Jeff said:
> : > I know that most in here, if there was a solution, would give it.
>
> I say:
> I'll take that bet since you don't even know how many people visit this NG
> and I'm sure that number fluctuates constantly. And I would disagree with
> your assessment since only one has responded in your favor, after
> including
> his personal attack.
>
> Jeff said:
> : > Therefore, I do not accept your response, and will wait patiently to
> see
> : > if someone can help me.
>
> I say:
> Well, you get what you pay for. Perhaps you should not concede to waiting
> patiently but rather spend your time wisely by researching the issue to
> educate yourself. NGs are not guaranteed. However, you might want to
> give
> it a shot in a client-side NG.
>
> Mark said:
> : Don't mind him, he's just the resident know-nothing ***-head.
>
> I say:
> I disagree. While Evertjan and I have had our differences, I don't think
> he
> classifies as a know-nothing. That statement implies you perceive
> yourself
> to be superior, in some way.
>
> Mark said:
> : Whatever glimpse of programming he may have once had is now eclipsed by
> a
> bad
> : personality and a tendency to be wrong much of the time.
>
> I say:
> Whether you feel that way about him or not has nothing to do with the
> response he gave to Jeff. It was neither rude nor wrong. Yours however
> was
> both.
>
> Mark said:
> : (I suspect there
> : may be a language barrier issue as well, but his level of arrogance
> isn't
> : usually present in such cases, so the jury is still out on that score.)
>
> I say:
> Where was the arrogance here? "Please..."???
>
> Mark said:
> : I'm going to assume that by "double click" you mean double submit, where
> the
> : user clicks the submit button a second time, before the first request
> has
> : been delivered to the user's browser, but after the first request has
> been
> : received by the server.
>
> I say:
> Do you often assume double submit when someone says double-click? Surely
> Jeff knows the difference between double-click and double submit. Oh
> wait,
> perhaps you're right. Jeff hasn't been right yet so why should I assume
> he
> is aware of the difference.
>
> Mark said:
> : Unfortunately there isn't a bunch you can do about this on the server
> side.
>
> I say:
> Which is the response Evertjan gave. Does this now put you in the
> know-nothing resident butthead category?
>
> Mark said:
> : You might try time-stamping the requests as they come in, and discarding
> ant
> : that are received within a certain proximity, but this can be difficult
> to
> : do, depending on the processing that's involved.
>
> I say:
> So, try to deal with it on the server-side when it is easily handled on
> the
> client-side? Perhaps this is just one reason he [Jeff] should be asking
> in
> an appropriate NG.
>
> Mark:
> : There is of course the widely used "social engineering" scheme (i.e.,
> the
> : 'do not press this button more than once' warning) but sadly it's less
> than
> : effective.
>
> I say:
> It's no more of a solution than your first suggestion.
>
> Mark said:
> : There are some client-side remedys, such as hiding the button after it
> has
> : been clicked, but before the request has been submitted (process
> onclick)
> : but I had 7 kinds of hell trying to make that work in non-IE browsers,
> and
> : finally gave up.
>
> I say:
> (see previous response)
>
> Mark said:
> : You might want to try clarifying you post (particularly if my
> assumptions
> : were incorrect) and resubmitting it to
> : microsoft.public.inetsdk.programming.scripting.jscript.
>
> I say:
> It's de ja vu all over again.
>
> Mark said:
> : There is a definite
> : server-side slant to your issue, and doubly-submitted requests surely
> can
> : cause database issues, but your most effective solutions are likely to
> : reside on the client end.
>
> I say:
> So, in the end, after shooting the messenger, you chose to side with him.
> While I don't like everyone on this news server, I am sure not all like
> me.
> I have had my share of run-ins and I've even accidentally shot the wrong
> person I was trying to defend. S**t happens. However, the simple truth
> is,
> when you're right, you're right. Bitching about someone you don't like,
> possibly because you have a captive audience [ Jeff ], when you actually
> agree with [him] the messenger [Evertjan], is just plain coffee-house crap
> but I guess it does add to the drama.
>
> Mark said:
> : btw, to any of you that might care to flame me for taking a shot at that
> : guy, first ask yourself, "does he have a valid point?" And second, be
> sure
> : to quote back the "offensive" part because that guy likely has me
> : kill-filtered, and I'd hate for him to have to wonder about what was
> said.
>
> 1. Yes he [Evertjan] does, you don't. Jeff asked in the wrong NG and
> should
> have moved it to a client-side NG. You were wrong in siding with him
> [Jeff]
> and responding to a client-side request in a server-side DB newsgroup.
> Your
> personal attack against Evertjan should been made to him, not Jeff. (my
> opinion) First-person is always more effective than third-person. As
> you'll note, I didn't respond to Evertjan re: your comments. *raises
> eyebrow*
>
> 2. Say please, Evertjan did. (O:= BTW... I doubt you care one way or the
> other.
>
> To sum it up, Jeff screwed up, Evertjan tried to educate and help him
> [Jeff], you screwed up Jeff even more without providing a solution,
> answering a client-side request in a server-side DB NG, poorly I might
> add,
> and I wasted even more bandwidth defending someone I disagree with
> sometimes, because, he was right.
>
> --
> Roland Hall
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