Re: Inline frames, die, die, die (aka please help!)

Tech-Archive recommends: Fix windows errors by optimizing your registry

From: Murray (forums_at_HAHAgreat-web-sights.com)
Date: 02/13/05 

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:24:50 -0500

Inline below - 

-- 
Murray
"John" <use_net@puresilver.org> wrote in message 
news:50mv01lhc70kbota4f9b9dgm9advfpd9go@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:16:29 -0500, "Murray"
> <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote:
>
>>The reason for using or not using frames should be based on a) your site's
>>needs, and b) your willingness to accept the potential problems that 
>>frames
>>can create for you as developer and maintainer of the site and for your
>>visitors as casual users of the site.
>
> Agreed. This is one reason I went to frames in the first
> place. They allowed me to add content very quickly and with a minimal
> amount of effort.
But the problem with frames is only partially about you.  They are often 
much more problematic for your visitor than for you.
>
>
>>As far as I know, the most comprehensive discussions of frames and their
>>potential problems can be found on these two links -
>>
>>http://apptools.com/rants/framesevil.php
>>http://www.tjkdesign.com/resources/frames/
>
> Redirected to :
>
> http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/frames/
Thanks - I have made that change.
>
> Thanks for the links. Good articles but as indicated there are
> workarounds for each issue.
Yes, and if you have multiple issues, you have to apply one tedious 
workaround after another. It's the slippery slope into frameset hell.
>
>>All of these items are cached after the first fetch - so in truth, a
>>non-framed page should load at about the same speed as a framed page
>>throughout the site.  Both would suffer the same hit initially, but for
>>interior pages, everything is pulled from the cache.
>
> Would this include Javascripted menu's ? I took the time to
> setup one from Dynamic Drive on my site only to go to work and view it
> on the PII/400 systems that we had at that time and found it
> incredibly slow.
It certainly could.  Personally I would not use an all javascript menu at 
all on any commercial site.  They add another whole level of complexity and 
problems to things.  Menus are so easy to build in dHTML without using a 
'system' that there's no reason not to.
>
>>> Also they're more broadly supported than Java
>>> Script and DHTML
>>
>>That's really misinformation.  You have to go back to v3 browsers to find
>>non-javascript ones.  I doubt anybody worries about such antique browsers
>>any more.
>
> Is DHTML cross-platform/cross-browser friendly ?
Sure - it's at least as cross-platform/cross-browser friendly.  DHTML is 
just javsacript and HTML.  All even sorta antique browsers support it.
>
>>> as frames are typically accessible even in Links.
>>
>>Sorry - I don't understand this one at all.
>
> LOL ! That's OK !
>
> http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/
>
> One of my friends is a scientist and still uses Links. He's on
> a dialup and doesn't want anything from the 'net except info. He's
> remarkably capable at finding patent info.
You mean "LYNX".  It's like a text only browser.  A well done dhtml menu 
should degrade beautifully in Lynx.
Take a look here -
http://www.murraytestsite.com/stone/menu.html
This (in my opinion) is the BEST dHTML menu I have ever seen.  Look at it in 
Firefox first with no styles and then with no styles and no javascript, and 
you'll see what I mean.  It is usable in either case.
>
> Thanks for your reply Murray.
>
> John

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