Re: big problems with browser compatibility!
From: Ronx (ronx917_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 11/18/04
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:29:46 -0000
In general, don't use anything on the drawing toolbar.
Lines, arrows rectangles, shapes all use VML graphics which use absolute
positioning, and are only visible in IE5.5 on Windows.
Most of the web components are safe. The database components depend on your
server - must be Windows, others require FP2002 extensions.
Setting FrontPage to accommodate Netscape actually turns off some features
that Netscape can handle, or which will fail gracefully in Netscape. NN4
users (according to the stats.) amount to about 2% of users in the browser
wars. The other Netscape versions can do whatever IE can do (except VML
graphics and the marquee - and NN7 can use the marquee). It is a question
of compromise - maximise the featureset or maximise the audience, and how
far back in ancient browsers do you design for?
If you restrict the site to IE5.5 users and above (about 80% of users), use
anything on the drawing toolbar. If you want the other 20%, don't use that
toolbar.
I've never used Dreamweaver - never got through the learning curve. In my
opinion graphics should be done in a graphics program, use a tool designed
for the job.
Rectangles and lines can be constructed with tables, cell borders and other
HTML tricks in conjunction with CSS.
With experience and testing in different browsers you will learn what will
work, what will fail.
And if there is a problem, ask in this newsgroup.
-- Ron Symonds (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage) Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread. "Surfin Local" <SurfinLocal@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:FFE6D889-208F-4883-9518-CF1A20BD73D2@microsoft.com... > OK. So just to be sure: Don't use autoshapes. Don't use wordart. How about > the simple rectangles/lines etc.? Basically don't use anything on the > drawing > toolbar? Are the web components safe? Also, I am confused on why you don't > want me to accomodate NN in the authoring properties. And I hate to ask > this > question but I will. I looked at demos of other web design software > (dreamweaver/go live). Liked the simplicity of FP much more. But do you > think > they have the capacity for creating these graphic design elements > "internally" or no matter what software is used, the elements are best > created elsewhere and imported as images? > > "Ronx" wrote: > >> Have another go. >> Draw a grid on a sheet of paper, with 1/2 inch margins - that's very >> roughly >> an 800px wide browser. >> Place the text and other components of your page into the grid, changing >> the >> rows and columns to suit. >> Open FrontPage, open your web and start a new page. >> Insert a table with the same rows and columns, and place the components >> into >> the table cells. >> Basic page layout done. >> >> For your word art, use Word to make the Word Art, Copy it to the >> clip-board, >> then paste into a graphics editor. Crop the image, then save as a .jpg. >> Import the image into FrontPage. >> >> If you get stuck, post back here. >> >> -- >> Ron Symonds (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage) >> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread. >> >> >> "Surfin Local" <SurfinLocal@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:BDF24A22-64E9-4CF5-A7B1-0D63CC6E27E8@microsoft.com... >> > You have been more than kind today. Thank you for your time. You know, >> > I >> > was >> > very happy with the site - able to use the "tools" I was familiar with >> > and >> > make it look the way I wanted. It functioned great from my computer and >> > some >> > others that I had checking. I am amazed that so many of the features >> > offered >> > are quite disfunctional or "particular" in the broader scope. >> > Obviously, >> > experience in page layout is helpful but only a small part of the >> > picture. >> > I >> > suppose that Microsoft assumes a person using the software has some >> > knowledge >> > of web design software but it sure would have been great to have some >> > "do's >> > and don'ts" way back at the Getting Started point! I'm hoping that a >> > Miller >> > Lite will help me decide whether to take your help and try again or >> > take >> > out >> > my wallet and pay for someone else's knowledge! Sue/Surfin Local, Inc. >> > >> > "Ronx" wrote: >> > >> >> The following are personal opinions, others may not agree and they >> >> won't >> >> be >> >> wrong. >> >> >> >> Also bear in mind that my web sites are personal, not business, and >> >> are >> >> built to look good in the latest browsers, and be functional in older >> >> models. >> >> >> >> Design for 800x600 browser - nearly half the PC users use a screen >> >> resolution of 800x600, and many others use their browsers in windows, >> >> smaller than full screen. In FP2003 set up the design window at >> >> 760x425. >> >> Fit the width of the page into that and it will suit 99% of users and >> >> browsers. >> >> >> >> Set the Authoring settings (Tools->Page Options - Authoring tab): >> >> >> >> Browsers: set to Custom >> >> Schema Version: Internet Explorer 5.0 >> >> Tick all the boxes except: VML graphics, ActiveX controls, PNG >> >> graphics, >> >> Java applets. Java may not be available on Windows XP or in IE6, PNG >> >> images >> >> will not be visible in some browsers, and ActiveX is IE only and often >> >> blocked. >> >> >> >> Generator and ProgID tags is your choice, makes no difference to the >> >> page. >> >> >> >> >> >> Using Layers: Used properly, layers are fine and are compatible with >> >> all >> >> browsers (except Opera 4, but who uses Opera 4?). If you use layers, >> >> do >> >> not >> >> set the height. Do not place a layer inside a table cell, and watch >> >> for >> >> trouble if you nest them (avoid nesting). Also beware of users who >> >> change >> >> font sizes - this is a cause of problems with layers if you are not >> >> prepared >> >> for it. >> >> >> >> Using tables for layout is nearly always safe. The layout on your >> >> page >> >> can >> >> be built using tables. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Ron Symonds (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage) >> >> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread. >> >> >> >> >> >> "Surfin Local" <SurfinLocal@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in >> >> message >> >> news:003D134A-069F-4BFA-A14F-090DBA2547AD@microsoft.com... >> >> >I can't say that the news is good but your help is most appreciated. >> >> >I >> >> > understand what you are telling me but quite honestly, I'm almost >> >> > afraid >> >> > to >> >> > try again! How do you think I should set my authoring >> >> > properties/page >> >> > size? >> >> > Should I stay away from layers? >> >> > >> >> > "Ronx" wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> I would start again, using tables to position elements, and lose >> >> >> the >> >> >> Word >> >> >> Art and Text Boxes. >> >> >> >> >> >> For a web page, you need a completely different mind set to >> >> >> designing >> >> >> a >> >> >> printed page. A web page has no dimensions - it's as wide as the >> >> >> browser >> >> >> (and sometimes wider), and as long as needed to get to the end. >> >> >> >> >> >> Also, see my other post. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Ron Symonds (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage) >> >> >> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Surfin Local" <SurfinLocal@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in >> >> >> message >> >> >> news:6559B278-60FA-4201-8EFF-81F327A799BD@microsoft.com... >> >> >> >I did use absolute positioning and most of the content is placed >> >> >> >in >> >> >> >layers. >> >> >> > With lots of experience in page layout software and none in web >> >> >> > development, >> >> >> > I apparantly created the site with the wrong frame of mind. I >> >> >> > reviewed >> >> >> > some >> >> >> > of the on-line training that I took initially and still fail to >> >> >> > see >> >> >> > where >> >> >> > this obviously important step is clearly noted. So while I am >> >> >> > busy >> >> >> > kicking >> >> >> > myself, could you tell me what you would do at this point? >> >> >> > "Ronx" wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Changing settings in FrontPage now is like shutting the >> >> >> >> proverbial >> >> >> >> stable >> >> >> >> door.... The settings in FP prevent components being used, they >> >> >> >> do >> >> >> >> not >> >> >> >> change anything that has already been done. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From your very brief description of the problems I _guess_ that >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> >> have >> >> >> >> used absolute positioning. Used carefully AP will not cause a >> >> >> >> problem >> >> >> >> in >> >> >> >> modern browsers (including NN4). Used carelessly, the >> >> >> >> overlapping >> >> >> >> text >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> graphics layers will be prevalent if the browser window is not >> >> >> >> at >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> design >> >> >> >> size. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> A URL will enable a better answer. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Ron Symonds (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage) >> >> >> >> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Surfin Local" <Surfin Local@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in >> >> >> >> message >> >> >> >> news:19064845-A4E0-4400-B56B-6D935672C08F@microsoft.com... >> >> >> >> >I created a website in FP 2003 without understanding that I >> >> >> >> >needed >> >> >> >> >to >> >> >> >> >choose >> >> >> >> > the correct authoring properties for consistent viewing in >> >> >> >> > different >> >> >> >> > browsers. After publishing the site, I asked several people to >> >> >> >> > visit >> >> >> >> > and >> >> >> >> > provide input. One person viewed the site in IE 5.0 (IE >> >> >> >> > version 6 >> >> >> >> > is >> >> >> >> > on >> >> >> >> > the >> >> >> >> > local drive) and noted several problems with the layering of >> >> >> >> > text >> >> >> >> > and >> >> >> >> > graphics. The site was also viewed in Netscape 4.7 where it >> >> >> >> > was >> >> >> >> > completely >> >> >> >> > unusable. Can I simply change those settings or do I have a >> >> >> >> > major >> >> >> >> > problem? >> >> >> >> > If >> >> >> >> > I can just change the settings, can I use the remote site or >> >> >> >> > do I >> >> >> >> > need >> >> >> >> > to >> >> >> >> > make the change on the local and re-publish? Thanks. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
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