Re: MS vs Mozilla, Netscape

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From: deacon (deacon_at_discussions.microsoft.com)
Date: 07/30/04 

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:45:01 -0700

Thanks for the reply Stefan......I don't recall having this problem with the standard tables, only with the layout tables in FP2003. The standard tables did not specify a height attribute and the layout tables do, so from what I can see, whenever content exceeds that initial height value, I have to go in and change the code to the size specified in the layout cell formatting pane, is that correct??

"Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:

> Html table / cell sizes are defined by the W3C as minimums
> - adjusted for cell content if required
> - interpreted by the browsers differently (if at all)
>
> When you set a table / cell height (not universally supported by all browsers / platforms)
> - all that does is set a minimum size for a non empty cell (browsers collapse empty cells)
>
> If you add content in a cell that exceeds that height (as is the case in your last cell on bottom right)
> - In Design view the Layout Table Cell properties are showing you WYSIWYG for IE
> - the cell has become larger than 420 or 313 (what ever it is "set" to in code view) because of the content being more than will fit
> in that set height, so the Layout tool is actually reporting what it will be when rendered in the browser - that is WYSIWYG
> If you change the font size in the content (or reduce the content text) the Layout tool will show you a smaller height (up till the
> minimum height you set in code)
> Or if you want to reset the code view to match change the rendered size in the Cell Formatting Task pane
> (of course that will change in the rendering browser based on the users screen resolution and other table / cell sizes in the page -
> say if a use selects View Text Size largest)
>
>
> PS
> the height set in code view (view source from your site) for all your outer cells in the bottom table is 420, not 313
> - select the correct cell in the Quick Tag Selector before switching to Code View
> --
>
> _____________________________________________
> SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
> "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
> To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> _____________________________________________
>
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:7DD6AF46-C6B4-43A1-814A-6D4E2C3F501C@microsoft.com...
> | This is the url. http://www.geocities.com/jamiefraser.geo/tables7.htm
> | The top table displays ok in IE,Netscape, Mozillia. Adding text in the right column of the lower table makes is push the footer
> away from the table in Netscape and Mozilla but it is ok in IE. The source code for the td's for both tables show the height at 313
> but the Front Page Editor is displaying the upper table at 313 and the lower table at 420. In other words, when I click on any of
> those cells in the second row of the lower table, Front Page is showing the properties as 420 but when I view the code in Front
> Page, it is 313.
> | So my question now is, why is Front Page telling me one thing under Layout Table Cell properties and displaying another thing in
> the code?
> |
> | "chris leeds" wrote:
> |
> | > put up your offending page and we'll take a look. there's _nothing_ that's
> | > absolutely wysiwyg, if it was you wouldn't like what you see. ;-) it'd be as
> | > restrictive as an iron maiden. (IMHO)
> | >
> | > --
> | > Chris Leeds,
> | > Microsoft MVP FrontPage
> | >
> | > The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
> | > spam.
> | > Please feel free to contact me here:
> | > http://nedp.net/contact/
> | > --
> | >
> | >
> | > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
> | > > Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the
> | > advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
> | > truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
> | > knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
> | > me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
> | > technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
> | > millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
> | > up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.
> | > > Thats why we bought it.
> | > >
> | > > "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
> | > >
> | > > > Just because a carpenter knows all about building houses doesn't mean
> | > that
> | > > > he doesn't need a table saw. Not knowing anything about a technology is
> | > > > about the worst reason I can think of for buying tools to use in that
> | > > > technology. If you did know much about the technology, you would realize
> | > how
> | > > > silly a demand you are making of Microsoft.
> | > > >
> | > > > --
> | > > > HTH,
> | > > > Kevin Spencer
> | > > > ..Net Developer
> | > > > Microsoft MVP
> | > > > Big things are made up
> | > > > of lots of little things.
> | > > >
> | > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > > > news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
> | > > > > For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave
> | > and
> | > > > the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am
> | > asking
> | > > > is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in
> | > the
> | > > > field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as
> | > well.
> | > > > They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I
> | > knew
> | > > > how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for
> | > me.
> | > > > >
> | > > > > "dave" wrote:
> | > > > >
> | > > > > > For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > > > > > news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
> | > > > > > > Why, in a nutshell, can't miscrosoft take into account the
> | > > > irregularities
> | > > > > > of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that
> | > works
> | > > > in
> | > > > > > all browsers?
> | > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > "Mark Fitzpatrick" wrote:
> | > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > The standards are only recommendations really. Netscape used to
> | > be
> | > > > the
> | > > > > > > > absolute worste browser for standards compliance. Navigator 3.x
> | > > > > > supported
> | > > > > > > > HTML 3.0. Unfortunately, there never was an HTML 3.0, instead it
> | > was
> | > > > 3.2
> | > > > > > and
> | > > > > > > > rather different then what Netscape implemented in Navigator.
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > Basically, there are tricks of getting things to look the same
> | > in
> | > > > all
> | > > > > > > > browsers. For example, to ensure that a table cell is a certain
> | > > > width,
> | > > > > > place
> | > > > > > > > a spacer image (a transparent gif that's 1 pixel wide by 1 pixel
> | > > > high)
> | > > > > > and
> | > > > > > > > set it to the width that you need the cell to be. This stems
> | > from
> | > > > older
> | > > > > > > > drafts of the HTML spec said that table widths are a recommended
> | > > > > > minimums,
> | > > > > > > > thus the browsers were able to ignore the width if the content
> | > > > didn't
> | > > > > > equal
> | > > > > > > > that number. There are lots of little issues like this, even how
> | > the
> | > > > > > > > browsers render fonts, especially in things like text boxes.
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > In a nutshell, each browser has it's own engine. Even the
> | > Navigator
> | > > > > > engine
> | > > > > > > > is different then the current Mozilla engine as the current
> | > Mozilla
> | > > > > > browser
> | > > > > > > > is several versions ahead of the Navigator 7 engine. Each design
> | > > > team
> | > > > > > builds
> | > > > > > > > the engines using their interpretation of the standards, trying
> | > to
> | > > > > > implement
> | > > > > > > > what they feel are the best set of items. To truly make
> | > universal
> | > > > > > designs,
> | > > > > > > > you'll have to learn the tricks used for doing things in
> | > particular
> | > > > > > browsers
> | > > > > > > > and trying to design accordingly.
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > Hope this helps,
> | > > > > > > > Mark Fitzpatrick
> | > > > > > > > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > > > > > > > news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
> | > > > > > > > > Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view
> | > it in
> | > > > IE
> | > > > > > and
> | > > > > > > > every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it,
> | > this
> | > > > same
> | > > > > > > > page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or
> | > > > Mozilla. I
> | > > > > > > > have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly
> | > and IE
> | > > > > > does
> | > > > > > > > not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display
> | > > > > > differently?
> | > > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | >
> | >
> | >
>
>
>

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