Re: Help with Interactions between IISadmin mmc and FP2003

From: Stefan B Rusynko (sbr_enjoy_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 06/23/04 

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 05:00:22 -0400

Glad you thought you made it clearer (-;
- but your detailed questions are the subject of a book or manual, not a newsgroup posted response
- if I can find some additional resource links for IIS for you to explore I will post them
See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=iis60
Note that capabilities and constraints under different Windows Servers (Win Xp Pro IIS5 vs. Win 2003 Server IIS6) are very
different, and non-Windows servers are in a separate category
- your eventual final production server platform should decide your initial approach on local servers

The initial point I was making is still valid
If you are working in the environment you described, do not use disc based webs to start
- they are very limited and do not support any real server based tools, and there will be major differences once you "transfer" to a
local server based web for the next stage
- they do not support collaborative multi-user web development or the tools you will most likely use
(server side scripting, security, databases, run time components, check in, etc)
Definitely do you all your staging / QC / production on local separate server based webs in FP 

-- 
_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-:              [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!"  (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
  http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
_____________________________________________
"edwardb" <eboyhan@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:e0b9b509.0406221557.6a082404@posting.google.com...
| Hi Stefan
|   Thank you for your prompt reply.  In retrospect I guess I wasn't
| very clear in my first post ... I'll try again.
|
| The main thing is: I am NOT asking a "how do I fix something that is
| broken" type of question.  We do not have anything quite like that.
| Everything is working fine; and all the main things with IIS, FP2003,
| FPSE 2000, 2002 are installed and working well (publishing, creating
| subwebs, hit counters, the works).  I appreciate the links below; I
| had already done that from the exact links given: both FPSE2002 and
| the security patch -- all in, all working fine.
|
| My questions are more along the lines of finding out "how things work"
| not "how to fix them".
|
| I appreciate your comment about undo complexity, but that is not in my
| purview to change.  I work for a corporation that is changing how they
| build and manage web sites (currently using Site Server 3.0).  To
| something else.  My job is to gather information and prototype several
| of the options under consideration one of which is the subject of my
| many questions here.  The architecture I presented is only one of
| those under consideration; it seems apt because it closely mimics the
| Site Server Architecture currently in use, and the probable structure
| (more a function of people and organizations than technology, I fear)
| that will be eventually be adopted.
|
| It does appear to us -- based on experience to date -- that FP behaves
| somewhat differently when working within a local site by itself, when
| working and publishing to a disk-based site, when working and
| publishing to a server-based site on WinXP (only one site allowed) on
| the same machine as the FP client, and working and publishing to a
| server based site using W2003 server, or Unix/Linux/Apache (with and
| without FPSE) on a totally different machine/Os environment. One of my
| tasks is to gather as much factual information about how all of these
| scenarios behave so that decision makers can make a more informed
| decision.  We are attempting to explore all the different
| client/server, local/remote site, FP/IIS scenarios that we can.
|
| My questions here, mainly have to do with things one appears to be
| able to do either from the IIS Admin MMC snapin,  the FPSE2002 admin
| pages (really a subset of the Office XP STS admin pages), or from
| within FP itself that appear to do the same thing (like creating a
| subweb), but may not be exactly the same, or have subtle side effects
| depending on (particularly) whether one uses IIS Admin or FP.  Since
| this is a decidedly corporate environment, the inclination is going to
| be towards maximizing reliance on IIS MMC, and minimizing the use of
| FP2003 for admin-like tasks.  That said it all has to pass through a
| "what are actually the technical facts Ma'am" kind of filter first,
| which is where my first post comes in.
|
| I'll edit the rest of this and put clarications in line below:
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" <sbr_enjoy@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<u5QV1HEWEHA.1164@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>...
| > IMHO
| > You are making the whole process too complex
| > - why create the sites as disc based webs to test them as server based webs locally
| > - just create all your local webs as local server based webs (subwebs under http://localhost/)
| > - this lets you "test" as you go, and gives you access to all server based run time tools and features
|
| Yeah, but to us it seems to then complicate the debugging processes
| quite a lot, when you publish truly to a server there is much more
| involved (things that can go wrong) than if I publish to a disk-based
| web.  We want to disaggregate the things that can go wrong and
| simplify debugging issues as much as possible.  We wish to take a
| measured, deliberate, step by step approach to site development,
| increasing the complexity as we go along.  Hence: development,
| staging/QA, production.  But then this is not ultimately a decision
| that you or I will have much say in.  This is a corporation after
| all...;)
| >
| > The FP SE under IIS will support 1 root web and unlimited subwebs
| > Start by correctly installing the FP 2002 SE w/ all updates, then
| configuring your root web in IIS for the FP SE
| > Then use the FP SE admin (or open you localhost root web in FP to
|  create/convert folders to subwebs) to create your individual
| > subwebs for each "project"
|
| We've done all that, and have no problems with what we have:
|
| "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
|
| One other corporate kind of mandate is we must keep all meaningful
| corporate site content out of wwwroot (a best practice from
| somewhere), but NOT to remap the location of the root of the default
| web site away from wwwroot (hence the complex vdir/subweb
| architecture).
| >
| > For the FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center see:
| > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se
|
| we used this link (as it turns out) (english link), and followed up
| with the security patch.
|
|
| Question 1:
| Even though I never put any content in wwwroot (all I did was create a
| > | virtualDir under the default website with name "sitename" which
| > | pointed to "My Webs\sitename") yet somewhere along the line
| > | "wwwroot\sitename" got created (as viewed from Win Explorer) with
| > | content of 6 folders ("_private", 4 "_vtixxx" folders, and an
| > | "images") all empty. Who/What created the real folder in wwwroot, and put
|  the empty folders there?  I thought vdirs were merely an aliasing
| scheme to point a "name" that "appeared" to be in wwwroot to a
| location somewhere else?
| btw, can the location pointed to in a vdir be a UNC name?, a network
| mapped drive?, or must it only be a location on the local machine?
| See also question 6 below.
|
| Question 2:
| > | Speaking of Windows Explorer, there is a "web sharing" tab on the
| > | explorer properties dialog for "sitename" in the "My Webs" folder ("My
| > | Webs\sitename") which seems to contain an "alias"  for the virtual
| > | directory name created under the default web site in IISadmin.  Are
| > | "Web Sharing" aliases then nothing more than virtual dir names?  Could
| > | I in effect create a Virtual Dir in Explorer by adding a Web Sharing
| > | alias to a folder?
|
| Question 3:
| > | There appears to be some subtle difference with the contents of "My
| > | Webs\sitename" depending upon whether the content got there thru a FP
| > | disk-based or FP server-based (http) publishing operation?  What is
| > | this difference?
|
| Question 4:
| > | There doesn't appear to be any right click properties dialog that
| > | completely indicates what a folder's "type" is: virtual dir, Web,
| > | SubWeb, disk-based, or server-based???  Even the folder icons seem
| > | confusing:  plain vanilla folder, vanilla with little globe in lower
| > | right, vanilla with larger globe centered, and something that looks
| > | like an opened cardboard box with a globe popping out.  When I right
| > | click, properties on these items, I can see no coherent, consistent
| > | info pattern to indicate the differences.  Is there anywhere where all
| > | the web site/folder icons appearing in FP2003 and IIS Admin MMC are
| > | documented (or can you at least explain the putative differences among the
|  various folder icons used in FP folder view and IIS Admin snap-in)??
|
| Question 5:
| > | There seems to be a bewildering set of seemingly similar terminologies in
|  use by IIS and FP2003.  Is there anywhere a tutorial (or other
| documentation,
|  KB article, etc)that can precisely sort out (at least) the
| > | following terms, and any differences in meaning from an IIS admin MMC
| > | vs FP2003 vs IE vs WinExplorer vs FPSE2000 admin vs FPSE2002 Admin
| > | perspective??:
|
| > | -- Web
| > | -- Virtual Web
| > | -- Virtual directory
| > | -- Server-based Web
| > | -- Disk-based Web
| > | -- SubWeb
| > | -- Virtual SubWeb (is there such a thing?)
| > | -- Web Folder
| > | -- Web Client Network (appears in network places from time to time)
| > | -- Server Extensions 2000 Web
| > | -- Server Extensions 2002 Web (ie whats the diff tween FPSE2000 &
| > | FP2002?)
| > | -- Share
| > | -- Web Share
| > | -- Local Site
| > | -- Remote Site
|
| Question 6:
| > | There have been comments here (on usenet) that you cannot turn vdirs into subwebs,
| > | but I seem to be able to first create the vdir in IISadm, then right
| > | click parent dir to create a FPSE extended web and give it the same
| > | name as the vdir, and this seems to work. If I first create the FPSE
| > | extended web that creates a "real" folder in wwwroot which is not what
| > | I want.  At any rate could this procedure be the source of the "real" dirs
| in wwwroot, and the empty FP-ish directories (_vtixxx's) as well?  BTW
| are _vti dirs an FP thing, or an IIS thing?,
| or an FPSE thing?  Is there any known problem with this procedure?
|
| Question 7:
| > | Is there any kind of "Best Practice" documentation for all of this?
|
| Question 8:
| > | How can one best utilize "Add Network Places" with this stuff as
| > | well?  Apparently there used to be a notion in pre WinXP OS's of a "Web
| Folders" folder, which capabilities now are present (fully or in
| part??) in "network places".  (The notion of a "Web Folders" folder
| seems appealing as the presence or absence of a folder here would
| presumably help sort out web and subwebs from vdirs and dirs -- this
| sort out capability seems missing from "Network Places")
|
| Question 9:
| > | Last question (and the only thing that absolutely doesn't work -- no
| > | matter what I do):  when I right click on a FPSE extended web folder
| > | in IISadmin, go to all tasks, one of the choices is "open with
| > | frontpage"  this always fails with message "you need to install
| > | frontpage client to open a web with frontpage".  I definitely have
| > | FP2003 installed -- it can open sites both on local machine across
| > | intranet, and even out on internet. I can publish to disk based
| > | locations, local http destinations, and even to sites on internet
| > | using SSL.  Anyhow is there some confusion tween FP2003 and IIS 5.1 Admin?
| > | (i.e. is what I'm seeing normal? because for some reason IIS admin was never
| > | coded to recognize FP2003??), or is something with install wrong?  I
| > | have uninstalled/reinstalled IIS, FPSE2000, and FPSE2002 all to no
| > | avail.  Are others able to sucessfully open an FP2003 from the IIS
| Admin "Open with Frontpage" task?  This only happens for us with
| FP2003, earlier versions of FP work fine.  It's a minor annoyance at
| this point, but even so....
|
| One final comment:  I haved searched through these Frontpage-related
| and IIS-related newsgroups, the web, MSDN, Technet, Office Web, KB
| database, all of microsoft.com (using google and more focused search
| engines) without finding much in the way of factual detailed technical
| info on "how things work" so any help you (or anyone else) can give
| will be muchly appreciated.  Is this perhaps misposted?  Is there a
| better newsgroup for this?
|
| TIA

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