Re: Advice for first time "contractor"

Not to get too political, but the kind of thinking that makes policy fit a
simplistic theory has gotten our entire country into a big mess. Theory is
good for some things, but when it overrides practicality, it's worse than
nothing.

In any case, that would mean that the only way programmers would have any
power to even approach that of corporations would be to form a union. How
many programmers want to do that? There are probably three or four
somewhere... And without that, corps have all the power and you have none.
That's why the rich get richer - not necessarily because they deserve it,
but because they can.



"Rush Strong" <rush.strong]@[verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uPMFUWJxFHA.624@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I've been watching this discussion about rates for a while, and as a
> believer in a free market economy, I have to reply.
>
> Why should your 'acceptable' rate be based upon the agency's percentage?
> I have also worked the agency route, and my deal has always been with the
> agency: that I would provide services for x dollars/hour.
>
> How they used and/or sold those services was up to them. If they could
> double their investment, good for them. What business is it of mine?
> After all, they are a value added service - they provide screened,
> qualified personnel to clients who know full well that they are paying a
> premium for that service. Am I to judge that their service is worth 35%,
> or 65%, or whatever?
>
> (And if I could, perhaps I should get into that line of business.)
>
> Consider the lowly staff programmer. Should he demand to know the revenue
> that his employer earns on behalf of his efforts?
>
> As far as "alarms and bells and whistles" are concerned: I fully agree.
> I have /never/ had to deal with insurance while working as a 1099, and the
> prevailing wisdom is that the reputable employment firms charge the
> employer for a placement fee, not the employee. It sounds like you should
> keep a close eye on them.
>
> - Rush
>
> "Matthew L Reed" <nousenetspam at dead ice dot us> wrote in message
> news:uQIZgNIxFHA.664@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Dan, alarms and bells and whistles should be going off. Tell them flat
>> out that if they don't reveal the rate, you won't take the project. If
>> they refuse, you are better off not taking the project anyhow. Find
>> someone else to represent you. You have to play hard ball with these
>> guys, and sometimes that means you don't get the job. The alternative is
>> that you give in, you get the job and they pay you 35% of what they are
>> billing the client. Don't hesitate to tell them to shove it. The client
>> wants you, they want the money, and when push comes to shove they will
>> frequently give in IF you are willing to stand up to them.
>>
>> One thing I've learned from years of dealing with head hunters and
>> recruiters and consulting firms is that some of them are very fair and
>> good to work for. Others are blood sucking penny pinching weasels (
>> didn't I say that already?) that want to make a lot of money off of your
>> hard efforts, while paying you a pittance.
>>
>> It's up to you, of course. If you dig in your heels, be prepared to not
>> get the job if they won't give in. If you are happy with the rate they
>> are paying you, then go for it. The client is probably being billed at a
>> rate between $75 to $125/hour for your time. Figure your percentage
>> accordingly.
>>
>> I once had a recruiter lie to me about how much the client was willing to
>> pay, I took the project, and I later discovered their lie. I lost about
>> $30,000 because I ended up on a project being paid about 40% of what they
>> client was paying, when I usually won't take a project that doesn't pay
>> me at least 60%. Needless to say, I'll never work for that firm again!
>> Giving in on something like this can cost you a lot of money in the long
>> run.
>>
>> "Dan_Musicant" <man@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:vd0mj1d63e2oaiuhr4vj80m0ifathlgekt@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:33:07 -0700, "Paul Pedersen" <no-reply@xxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> :Ordinarily, you're a W-2 employee of the agency, meaning that they take
>>> care
>>> :of the taxes and you get an ordinary paycheck. That being the case,
>>> they
>>> :should provide the professional insurance.
>>> :
>>> :If you're a 1099 contractor, you handle the taxes and you handle the
>>> :insurance, but the agency should take a much smaller cut. If these guys
>>> are
>>> :taking 30-40% like most, they really ought to be buying the insurance,
>>> as
>>> :well as pampering you in other ways.
>>>
>>> In the past I've always been W2, but this recruiter wants me on 1099. I
>>> don't know what their cut is. I am going to ask and hope they answer me.
>>>
>>> I just talked to the recruiter and he wouldn't reveal their cut. He said
>>> that info is "confidential." I don't feel I have the luxury of declining
>>> the position. I am rather sure it must be over 20% or I think he would
>>> have told me, but I am completely new to contracting so what do I know?
>>> I was tempted to ask him if they'd boost my pay rate but didn't say a
>>> word about that. It's not exciting but it's not horrible. It sure beats
>>> what I've got going now. This job has the additional attraction of being
>>> the nearest to my home of any FoxPro job I've had. I will be taking my
>>> bicycle when it isn't raining.
>>> :
>>> :I've used several of these places in the past, and I've actually been
>>> pretty
>>> :happy with most of them. Some were pretty flaky, but most were OK.
>>>
>>> I don't know where these folks fit in the curve. Their reluctance to
>>> offer me W2 along with certain other glitches makes me think they aren't
>>> the greatest (yes, understatement). I used to work temporaries,
>>> basically unskilled work. Those are really the worst. My experience with
>>> recruiters since I learned to program has been FAR superior to working
>>> temporaries. I really do love the fact that I can post my resume on a
>>> job site and get calls from recruiters. Most of them are absurd - jobs
>>> in Florida, Texas, for languages I know nothing about, but I've gotten
>>> some very good jobs, had some very good learning experiences.
>>> :
>>> :There are also "Employer of record" agencies. With those, they handle
>>> the
>>> :taxes and insurance, and have 401k's, and reimburse expenses, and have
>>> other
>>> :benefits, but you have to find your own work. They bill the client for
>>> you
>>> :and issue you a regular (W-2) paycheck, in return for 4-5% of the
>>> gross. I
>>> :use one of those now, and I've been pretty happy with them. If anyone
>>> wants
>>> :to know who it is, let me know and I will have them contact you. (I
>>> don't
>>> :want to spam the group.) Disclosure: I get a referral fee.
>>>
>>> There's a Paul Pederson (slightly different spelling from you) in my
>>> local FoxPro user group. I had to wonder if you are the same guy! He
>>> lives in Alameda, CA.
>>>
>>> I hadn't heard of those "Employer of record" agencies. That's an
>>> interesting arrangement. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


.

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