Re: Killing VB softly with his song, Killing VB softly...with a song.............

Clinton:

If you go back and read your posts, you'll find them peppered with words
like many and most quite often. You are stating your opinion as if it were
fact, and that is where I think the flaw in your argument lies.

Where did you come up with your assesment that the syntax of the web lies in
C or C based languages? This is not a fact, it is an opinion. If you
really want to get technical about it (and use some facts as well), the
syntax of the web is based in markup. HTML, XML and now XHTML (which all
stem from SGML) are the syntaxes, DTD's (and now Schemas) provide the
grammar.

What you are talking about is object-oriented programming languages that can
be used for server-side web application logic (but do not have to only be
used for this purpose). These languages do not have any inherant tie to the
web. There may be classes in their respective frameworks that aid in web
development, but the language itself is not client or server specific.

So, we come back to the question of which of these languages should one use
and the each have their own pro's and con's. Yes, it's true that C, C++,
Java, C# and J# share in much of their actual language syntax. So, yes it is
true that learning one of these would give you a leg up in learning the
others. But, I think your opinion has missed the mark when you go on to
isolate VB and seem to say that if one were to learn VB, they would not have
gotten the 3 for 1 that you might get from learning, say Java. If you learn
VB .NET thoughroughly and understand it, you should have no problem at all
picking up on some of the different syntax (and here's the important part)
for the SAME behaviors available in VB .NET.

As I stated in my first reply, history has something to say about your
postulation that VB will go away. Throughout all the incarnations of the
Web, the fact that Java has now been around for a decade (JavaScript a bit
longer) and VB is not only "still here, stumbling along", but it is better
than ever. Couple this with the fact that there really isn't anything that
you can do in Java or C# that can't be done in VB .NET and you may begin to
think; "Why should I bother learning a cryptic, punctuation-oriented,
case-sensitve language, when I can learn VB .NET (RAD) and work in a very
powerful IDE?".

-Scott


"clintonG" <csgallagher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uZbmwTy1FHA.2008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <snip />
>
> This topic is not and was not meant to be about which language per se but
> about which syntax and which grammar has become the defacto standard for
> most languages that are being used at this point in time to develop most
> applications for the most significant endeavor in the history of mankind's
> efforts to involve themselves with a computer science. That is of course
> the Internet manifested in a form useable by humans we know as the web and
> the syntax and grammar that which has been derived from C in this context.
>
> Blame Thompson and Ritchie if you must but there's no denying that the
> legacy of C [1] has become the legacy of the web and this legacy is best
> expressed in its totality in the client and an overwhelming presence on
> the server by Java and C# as well as other languages that are very C-like.
>
> This contention is and has been continually proven by Software Magazine's
> annual surveys. This year -- again as I recall -- the most often used
> languages as cited by survey respondents are Java followed by C#. To be
> honest this confuses me as the classifieds rarely ask for C# when seeking
> .NET developers. The classifieds it seems are almost always seeking VB.NET
> developers. Not to denigrate VB anymore than it seems but I believe this
> phenomena to be a hold over from the past (and current) success of VB
> itself and the monkey-see monkey-do behavioral model present in most
> management processes more so than the understanding of which syntax and
> language offers the most efficient and highest use of one's resources and
> one's willingness and ability to adapt to change to the current paradigm.
>
> Actually, if there would be a single person to look to in this regard of
> the legacy itself it would have to be Brendan Eich the author of
> JavaScript [2] whose decision to reuse the C syntax and grammar has
> changed software development as we know it, as again, it is the phenomena
> of the web that has become the deciding factor and the legacy of C is
> rapidily becoming prevalent. I think Google is making this point perfectly
> clear [3].
>
> So again, I note many languages do not fit this paradigm and many
> languages will continue to be used and new languages will continue to be
> developed. Ruby comes to mind as I find a need to learn this language for
> certain aspirations I hold in the practice of architecture where I was
> formally educated, trained, and where much of my thinking processes have
> been influenced by an immersion into classical thought and philosophy.
>
> Regardless, that does not change the fundamental premise of my contentious
> postulation, that being, in the course of time the VB syntax and grammar
> [4] will continue to be killed softly by this song.
>
> It is interesting to note the wikipedia disclaimer for those recoding the
> history of Visual Basic [3]. That there are contentious and biased points
> of view we all hold is of no question none of which however change the
> facts. I like VB myself but one day I had the "learn three for the price
> of one" epiphany and realized I was compelled to think pragmatically and
> was therefore compelled to adopt the legacy provided to us by men such as
> Thompson,Ritchie and Eich.
>
> That's all there is to it for me as a person who happens to have what some
> may call a deep insight if you will as I am rarely incorrect in my
> prognostications. People that know me over a period of time have told me
> for years I would do much better in the stock market and financial
> management because I have an uncanny ability to see a trend early in the
> curve and call which horse will win the race. But alas, I am a stubborn
> fool.
>
> It is only because I am also a maverick that I have avoided that pursuit
> in favor of my current endeavors which compel me to say "sorry fellas"
> because it really looks like the VB syntax and grammar has seen its heyday
> [5], Microsoft's efforts to retain the loyalty of VB developers not
> withstanding, the VB syntax and grammar is in the process of becoming
> relegated to the annals of history to take its place as second fiddle in
> this symphany of the web where I find myself lucky enough to have found a
> seat in the orchestra which I credit to my willingness to learn, my
> predilection towards change, and my ability to read the *** music which
> the conductor has made clear: This symphany is to be played in the key of
> the legacy of C.
>
> <%= Clinton Gallagher
> METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
> URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_programming_language
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javascript
> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX
> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_programming_language
> [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_BASIC
>
>


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