Re: SQL or Access DB

Hello Ryan ,,,


Well untill sofar i did not find a free solution that can counterpart with
what Access can give me out of the box

i am aware of the security modell of SQL server ( we do use SQL server
enterprise for our web projects ) and that is exactly our problem
i work for a companny who sells data ,, we collect data of Automotive parts
wich oil filter will fit on wich car etc etc etc this is expensive
information
then we create a nice gui around this database and sell it to automotive
parts importers throughout Europe ,,, they give this program on DVD to
local workshops ( only in germany already 6000 )

So you understand that collecting this data is big business, we employ
numerous people who`s job is to find out wich parts fits on wich car ,,,

Maybe you are beginning to understand my problem and for a fact numerous
other developers around the world ???

when the data is the value of your program , and this program is shipped to
an end user ,,, there is not reall alternative as a worgroup Access database
as i encounter the performance limits of access i really wish it was true
that i can secure my data in such a way that only my program has access to
this data
encrypting all columns in my database would degrade the performance in such
a way that it is unacceptable for the customer ( there is lots of querying
going around in these databases )

the problem is we arre talking about different forms of security

in my situation when the database goes corrupted ,,, so be it,,,, perform a
new installation of the program and the problem is solved

in my context security means securing my data from the concurency ,,,, so
this means that nobody and when is say nobody i also mean administrators etc
etc except my program should have access to the database ( with access this
is possible with MSDE it isn`t )

Okay before we end in a discussion stating that everything can be hacked ,,,
ofcourse but untill sofar nobody has our data yet ,,, if it was a open
database what would have happened ???

P.s.

had once a discussion with someboddy that said it was probably due to my SQL
knowledge that i couldn`t secure it ,,, well i asked him to send me a small
demo database that i should not be able to open ,,, received it atached it
with my enterprise manager to my local instance and walla there was all the
data

well that was exactly my nightmare scenario , with a database that i would
have shipped as soposed to be secured

on numerous newsgroups ,, i found lots of developers facing the same problem


I hope that someone will once comeup with a solution ,, as i said it is lots
of data , so it would be great if i could switch over

regards

Michel Posseth


"W.G. Ryan MVP" <WilliamRyan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schreef in bericht
news:%23htqZDCoFHA.1088@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Michael - Not trying to start a flame war, but to say that security is
> stronger in Access than Sql Server b/c someone with Admin privileges can
> get to the db nutty. If someone has admin privileges and access to a box,
> they can get to just about anything. You can definitely permission sql
> server strong enough to keep people from seeing what they don't have
> permission to. And if people have Admin rights that shouldn't than there's
> problems with the permission scheme not the db.At some point, someone is
> going to have to have access to the data and whatever scheme you come up
> with is only as strong as the how it's enforced - and it doesn't matter
> how the data is compromised per se, but that it's compromised at all.
>
> In your scenario where it's not a problem if the users own there data but
> it is if they don't, why not store the data in the Sql Server DB
> Encrypted? We do that all the time (in fact we're required to in many
> instances).
>
> As far as 50 users concurrently. There are countless numbers of people
> that have terrible problems w/ Access when the number is as low as 5. And
> unless you can control with certainty, the growth of the user base, than
> scalability is a major problem. What if your app needed to support 100
> people or a much rigorous load? With Sql Server or any real DB that'd be
> laughable and wouldn't require any work at all.
>
> I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the fact that Access can work as a
> solution doesn't mean it's a good one, and to claim that it's more secure
> is just nuts
> "m.posseth" <posseth@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:42fdb39a$0$1641$ba620dc5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Well ,,,,,,,
>>
>> sorry to throw some gassoline on this firy thread
>>
>> But as far as i know ,,,, ms Access , MSDE and SQL express are all free
>> for a Visual studio programmer
>>
>> file security lets me stick to MS Access 2000
>>
>> MSDE , SQL express , firebird , interbase etc etc all great databases
>> however they lack one key functionality that keeps me from using it in my
>> deployable apps
>> and that is security ,,,,, everyone with admin rights can look in your
>> database files and see your data , with access you can create a workgroup
>> file , encrypt the database and only your program can access the data
>>
>> This is no problem if your users own the data , in my situation the data
>> is the core business ( this is were the value of the app is ) so you do
>> not want to have the concurency steal your data and create there own gui
>> aropund that data and sell this as there own product
>>
>> i wish i could switch over to a reall RDBMS as our database files are
>> growing to gigabytes ,,,, however i must say about access it isn`t so bad
>> as people are telling here because our products are beeing used by
>> thousands of users throughout Europe and are even used on server farms
>> with more as 50 users using the same program ( thus same DB ) however we
>> are talking about mostly read data with once in a while a price update
>>
>> Also the ease to deploy your app with a Access DB,, well ,,, its just
>> a mather of xcopy and make sure Mdac is installed on the target system
>>
>> I have once made a deploy package for MSDE and found myself coding in
>> C++ to get everything how i wanted it ( check if there is already an
>> instance, naming etc etc ) , i understood that this is now much better
>> with sql express however now you should investigate Installer technology
>> as eveything is now in a Merge module that can be customized with these
>> options ( MSDE had also a MM but this lacked these options )
>>
>> If i am truly honest ,,,,,,,, i must say that if file security was not an
>> issue i would probably now use the Firebird DB as it performs superb, is
>> free and is much easier to deploy , (XCOPY deployable , and it is multi
>> platform ),, there is even an embedded version , that can be scaled up to
>> the reall server version . and again i must say that this hurts me as i
>> am a true MS fanatic
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Earl" <brikshoe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schreef in bericht
>> news:%23RFWxN9nFHA.420@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> If the database design is normalized, then it's less likely that size
>>> will become an issue. A non-normalized database will grow exponentially.
>>>
>>> JET ("Access") could be used, as I have in the past for a small system
>>> with less than 10 users, but in time, you will sooner or later hit a
>>> locking issue and/or possible corruption.
>>>
>>> As noted by Cor, MSDE is a real bitch to deploy (the cynic in me says
>>> that was by design), so the best "free" choice for a networked solution
>>> would be SQL Express 2005. I'm not sure about the licensing issues in
>>> your scenario.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, for a small business, if you don't already have a server
>>> installed and plan to build a small network, you might consider buying
>>> Small Business Server Premium. It comes with SQL Server 2000 Standard.
>>>
>>> "DaveG" <newsgroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:O9mdnbY3z-GFdWHfRVnzvA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> I am planning on writing a stock and accounts program for the family
>>>> business, I understand this is likely to take close to 2 years to
>>>> accomplish. The stock is likely to run into over a thousand items and
>>>> the accounting side will be used for hopefully many years so the
>>>> entries are likely to be vast.
>>>>
>>>> The delema is what is best to use ase the DB engine, Access I have as
>>>> part of Office 2002 or should I really be looking at SQL server??
>>>>
>>>> What are the pros and cons between the two??
>>>>
>>>> The DB will only be accessed by one client at this time but never more
>>>> than 2.
>>>>
>>>> If the choice is SQL Server is there a version available just for
>>>> single clients. I remember using MSDE when I did my ASP.Net book can
>>>> this be used to create the initial DB???
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for taking the time to read this, any advice would be very
>>>> helpfull to me at this planning stage.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> DaveG - Learning VB.Net slowly.
>>>> Skøyen - Oslo - Norway
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


.

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