Re: To LinQ or not LinQ

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On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:01:12 +0100, "Frans Bouma [C# MVP]"
<perseus.usenetNOSPAM@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



I didn't say it was "SQL syntax", I said it was "SQL style syntax". From
the context, it should be clear this means the same thing that Jani said,
i.e. "the SQL-like" syntax.
there's nothing SQL like about the syntax, despite the similar looking
keywords.

surely that *is* syntax.

?

It's up to you, but I'd have preferred more than "?". Syntax is the
set of rules governing which symbols (including keywords) can be
placed where in a valid sentance. It's quite possible for two
languages to be utterly different in other ways while sharing a large
amount of syntax.

SQL is set oriented, Linq is sequence oriented. That's a big
difference as sets don't have an ordering, sequences do.

while that is symantics.

If you call that semantics, you clearly have no clue.

If this is going to decend into rudeness, then I'll drop out - I try
not to be unpleasant when I post, and I don't enjoy discussions where
insults are thrown out rather than actual constructive criticism. Yes,
you could say, "well usenet is like that", but it's not all like that
- I've used it for years, and have generally managed to get great
benefit from it whilst avoiding getting involved in exchanges like
that.

You say SQL is set oriented and Linq is sequence oriented. If you are
speaking of SQL as a language and Linq as a language, then the fact
that the languages differ in meaning even when they superficially look
the same is a semantic difference. If you have a different definition
of semantic I'd be interested to hear it.

Date hates everything he didn't cook up himself, so take his opinion
with a grain of salt.

I take everything anyone says with a grain of salt :-).

Date's views on NULLs are rather extreme in my view, but he's
perfectly correct that there are many aspects of SQL which mean that
SQL tables / views etc. are not in fact relations in the sense of the
relational algebra.

That said, I doubt it that the 'guru's' will say

The semantics of that are clear - the syntax is a little off though
:-)

that SQL is bad with respect to relational models: SQL is a language to
WORK with relational databases. It's a common mistake to think that
relational models are tightly coupled with SQL or that SQL is the
foundation of relational models. It's not. Relational models are
abstract definitions. SQL is often used to define the implementations of
these models in relational databases, but it could well be possible that
you use a different language for that.

Indeed, and there are such languages (mostly of academic interest),
which, when used to definte relational databases, would result in
databases which were firmly based on the relational model - rather
than being rather loosely based on it, as happens with SQL.

--
http://www.sgat-computing-services.co.uk/
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: To LinQ or not LinQ
    ... the context, it should be clear this means the same thing that Jani said, i.e. "the SQL-like" syntax. ... speaking of SQL as a language and Linq as a language, ... that the languages differ in meaning even when they superficially look ... perhaps I should stop warning people that Linq queries aren't sql queries and shouldn't be seen as such, and just let them plow on and wondering why their code is so dogslow in production. ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp)
  • Re: To LinQ or not LinQ
    ... "OO style syntax", which is correct. ... It's not SQL syntax either, ... seen in declarative languages. ...
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