Re: Pressing Enter on ListBox should invoke DoubleClick

Tech-Archive recommends: Repair Windows Errors & Optimize Windows Performance

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:18:18 -0700, Zytan <zytanlithium@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[...]
So, Enter = rename. I can see this existing in inhouse apps, but that
is just not standard or intuitive UI. It's only intuitive for someone
trained on that app.

It seems to me that you have started with a preconceived notion of what you want the UI to do, and have decided that if it doesn't do that, you will call it "not intuitive".

For the record, the "original"(*) "intuitive user interface" -- the Macintosh OS -- uses *exactly* the paradigm I mentioned. It's one of the reasons I brought it up. For example, in Finder when you are looking at a list of files (which is like a listbox), if you hit the Enter key you are put into the "rename" mode. If you double-click on an item, it executes or opens it.

You may successfully argue that the vast majority of Windows applications don't use this paradigm, but I cannot take seriously any claim that insists that there is no alternative implementation of a list-based user-interface that cannot be just as "standard" or "intuitive". I see no reason for a Windows application to not duplicate this behavior when it's desirable.

In fact, even in Windows *where* you double-click makes a difference in the behavior of double-clicking. So technically, Windows has the opposite behavior: Enter always executes, while double-click often puts you into renaming mode.

[...]
I think the only apps that don't do it are made by people who don't
know UI very well.

See above. The only way you can continue to support that claim is either to qualify it and restrict the scope of what you originally wrote, or to insist that the folks at Apple "don't know UI very well". Whatever else you might think about them, I really don't think that saying that they "don't know UI very well" is going to get you very far in any debate. :)

I think it's a de facto standard. All it takes is
a few beta tests to see what happens, and what people expect. Of
course, for a team of people who have years experience with non-
standard UI, they will come to expect it that way. Just like Mac vs.
Windows. Each is right, as long as you are used to it.

Well, I also think that's a stretch. In both Mac and Windows operating systems, there are elements to the user interface that are NOT right. They both have room for improvement. But I also disagree that defining behavior to this kind of precision in even a single operating system is necessary. It is certainly important to have some broad consistencies, but each application may have different needs. If there's a reason for pushing the Enter key to do something different than double-clicking on an item, why should the operating system or the .NET Framework artificially prevent that?

I just can't believe people don't think of Enter as 'execute'.

People have an amazing ability to think of Enter as not just "execute" but other commands as well, depending on context. Humans are very good at dealing with context-sensitive scenarios.

In any case, whatever conclusions you may arrive in this discussion, you've already lost the battle to consolidate double-clicking and pushing the Enter key. It is the way it is, and whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's going to stay that way. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to convince you that it's okay that way, since that may mean that you continue to be irritated by this behavior in the future. But you should at least get used to the idea. :)

Fortunately, it is pretty trivial for you to override the default behavior, and do so in an easily reused way. So the actual issue of code development is very minor. If you think that double-click and Enter should always be the same thing, then in your programs they always can be, and without you having to write the code more than once. Be thankful you're using OOP. :)

Pete

(*) Yes, I know "GUI" existed before the Mac OS.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: Win 7 comments
    ... auto-upgraded to new standard dialogs, ... right - this has been a problem for a long time on Windows. ... When the Registry goes belly up you are toast... ... I will wait for some apps to crash. ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
  • Re: Vista so secure it doesnt need Anti-Virus
    ... Uninstall/Delete apps. ... Switch between windows in an active app. ... Select "Rename from the context menu". ... Looks like the second method for the Macintosh cuts down on mouse clicks ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
  • Re: many JFrames and JDialog modal only for one of them (not all)
    ... >:Just because something is 'standard', ... >:at the moment, but perhaps Steve ... lose one form of modality they have in native apps. ... windows in the application, except for any windows created with the ...
    (comp.lang.java.gui)
  • Re: A *bit* OT: VB6 app on touch-notebook
    ... UMPC runs Windows XP Tablet Edition, and uses a standard ... VB apps will work fine on ...
    (microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion)
  • RE: How to block users from installing other apps
    ... > Through Group Policies in Acitve Directory or Local Policies ... Last time I did this was on a Windows ... an easy way around this would be to rename AIM.exe ... *Some* apps may not even be things that users realize are ...
    (Focus-Microsoft)