Re: Data Layer architecture

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Alfredo Novoa wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:52:14 +0100, Steve Walker
> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Sorry Alfredo, having had a look at your posts to other newsgroups
> > I'm now aware that this something of a hobby horse for you.
>
> I simply try to combat the simpletonism and misinformation to the
> little extent of my possibilities where I find it. Unfortunately there
> are many people a lot more perseverant than me doing exactly the
> contrary.

Well, the only think you're achieving is that you look like some
60-year old gnu-emacs lover who comes in to tell us that VS.NET with
intellisense is the root of all evil.

What's also stunning is your serious lack of listening / reading
capabilities and the talent to realize we all have been to uni/college
to some degree and have studied the same dreaded books you have studied
and perhaps even way more than you have done.

What I find intriguing is that you didn't mention Yourdon in any way
in your lecturing comments. Not suprisingly of course, as Yourdon went
the OO route and thus became one of the Dark Side-members.

I also have failed to see even ONE argument why ALL (not some, but
ALL) business rules and LOGIC (!) has to be written in code which is
placed INSIDE the RDBMS.

Even though when code inside an RDBMS runs ON TOP OF the database it
targets.

> > I understand that you have absolutely no time for
> > the object orientated approach to building software
>
> The object orientated approach is for building applications, not for
> for managing data. Applications are only a part of an Information
> System.

... and data is only data. Information is something else.
OO is just a way to write software, or better: to look at how to
divide responsibility over what to write to increase re-usability and
structure.

> Joe Celko posted this many times:
> -------
> Many years ago, the INCITS H2 Database Standards Committee(nee ANSI
> X3H2 Database Standards Committee) had a meeting in Rapid City, South
> Dakota. We had Mount Rushmore and Bjarne Stroustrup as special
> attractions. Mr. Stroustrup did his slide show about Bell Labs
> inventing C++ and OO programming for us and we got to ask questions.
>
> One of the questions was how we should put OO stuff into SQL. His
> answer was that Bells Labs, with all their talent, had tried four
> different approaches to this problem and come the conclusion that you
> should not do it. OO was great for programming but deadly for data.
> --------

OO == data+behavior. I appreciate Celko's work for SQL, but I always
have the feeling he has a certain bias against anything not SQL.

> > All I will say is that I don't understand why you have the
> > slightest interest in a C# newsgroup, since your preferred mode of
> > development can be achieved perfectly well using PHP or some other
> > simple scripting language.
>
> I am developing a new generation RDBMS using C#

a new 'generation' RDBMS? Ah no wonder you want everything INSIDE the
rdbms!. But what's a new generation? Post-relational database system
like uniVerse, with 3D tables? Or plain old boring RDBMS like we all
know so not really 'new generation' ?

FB

ps: databases and RDBMS-es are great, I really think so, but don't
overreact. You IMHO overreact how great they are and what they SHOULD
do. Not everyone has the same opinion as you do, nor are you the only
one who knows it all.


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