Re: C# and C++ (again)
- From: "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <nickmalik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:19:54 -0700
Hi Tad,
Actually VB.Net can do all of the things you want it to do. So can C#. You
aren't really using the features I was thinking of. (I used to do embedded
firmware in C for data communications devices... Unions and Structs were a
great way to quickly parse a binary stream. You aren't doing that).
The answer is to use classes, not structs. It is trivial to create a class
that will perform the functions that your 27-element structure was
performing, in a clean manner. No need to break apart a portion of an array
and send it to a function... simply make the function into a method of an
object that contains a 3x3x3 array.
You can create and use an array that is 3x3x3 simply in VB.Net.
Dim Multiarray(3,3,3) as Integer
Multiarray(2,1,1) = 4
The next thing I'd recommend is to buy a good book on OO development. Your
text leads me to believe that you are walking away from so much of the real
power of the language.
Note: C#: same comments, different syntax
--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
"Tad Marshall" <tad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23gH6s65QFHA.3076@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> The other "C trick" that I wanted to use is to take a 100 element array,
> grab one element from it, and pass it as a single thing to a subroutine.
> The subroutine would think that it had just one structure to look at, and
> would know nothing about the array that it was pulled from. Simple
> casting in C++ makes this easy ... I couldn't figure out a way to do the
> same thing in VB.NET. Possibly I just don't know VB.NET well enough. I
> ended up passing all the array indices to the subroutine, though they are
> none of its business and just add code bulk and the possibility of typos.
>
> It sounds like I should be writing this code in unmanaged C++ ... do you
> agree?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tad
>
> "Tad Marshall" <tad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:OL$%23es5QFHA.3096@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the thoughtful response. You very accurately saw what I
>> was hoping for and set me straight.
>>
>> The bit of code that annoyed me the most was a really stupid Select/Case
>> statement that I had to write because VB.NET did not seem to let me embed
>> an array into a structure. I have some data that is essentially a three
>> dimensional array, and in C, this would have been something like
>>
>> struct myItem {
>> int itemKey;
>> float itemInfo(3,3,3);
>> }
>>
>> and in VB.NET I ended up writing a routine to take an index between 0 and
>> 26 and look up the itemInfo field I wanted. Pure annoyance from my
>> perspective.
>>
>> I was also disappointed when I tried to set a memory breakpoint in VS.NET
>> 2003. I have used these breakpoints for years in Win32 C++ code, and
>> sometimes they are the perfect way to chase down a bug. VB.NET said that
>> these breakpoints were not available in VB.NET. Perhaps they are also
>> not available in C#.
>>
>> I'm leaning towards using C++ for my rewrite, based on what you have told
>> me. My current VB.NET code is around 40% .NET calls and 60% hand-written
>> code, or something like that. In converting to some C flavor, my Dim i
>> As Integer becomes "int i;" and all the ByVal notation goes away, so I
>> bet it is more concise in C(++ or #) than in VB.
>>
>> I don't regret coming up to (slow) speed in VB.NET, but it just isn't the
>> language where I will be most productive. I am writing some software
>> that only I will be running, and if making my hand-written code be
>> unmanaged is the way to go, that is fine with me. I need a pair of 500
>> element structures, each of which holds a 3 by 3 by 3 array, and this is
>> really easy in C++. An array of structures that include arrays does not
>> push this language very hard. VB.NET wanted a ReDim state for each
>> element ... ah, no thank you.
>>
>> On this array thing, it would be very nice to treat this 27 element array
>> as either 3 by 3 by 3 or just a list of 27 numbers. That's what I could
>> have done in C ... just declare a union and I am done. Does this mean
>> that I will only be happy in C++, and unmanaged C++ at that?
>>
>> Thanks for the great response!
>>
>> Tad
>>
>> "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <nickmalik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:mZ-dnWDGdrCzJ__fRVn-sQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Hi Tad,
>>>
>>> I was a C person for many years before doing VB, then a VB person before
>>> switching to C# in the .Net wave.
>>>
>>> If you are more comfortable with C-style syntax then, by all means,
>>> switch to C#. However, be prepared that you won't get the structs and
>>> unions that you used to get in C/C++.
>>>
>>> C assumed a specific character set and a specific byte order. This made
>>> structs and unions very easy to use to convert binary values and
>>> translate types.
>>>
>>> The .Net framework was written from a multi-lingual multi-cultural
>>> standpoint. As a result, we can no longer assume the same things. As
>>> long as you are in managed code, you will have to start with these
>>> assumptions.
>>>
>>> So your translation from VB.Net to C# may not yield fewer lines of code,
>>> as you suggest. The total lines of code are likely to be the same.
>>>
>>> That said, I'd recommend that you take the time to jump to C# if you
>>> want to move over to the C side of the house. To be honest, I find it
>>> to be a more satisfying and fun language than many other languages I've
>>> used. That's personal, of course. I know of many folks who are much
>>> happier with VB.Net, and that is fine as well.
>>>
>>> Just be forewarned... some of the things you can do in C or C++ are not
>>> available in managed code. Not in Java either. You may not get what
>>> you are looking for.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
>>> MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
>>> representative of my employer.
>>> I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
>>> programmer helping programmers.
>>> --
>>> "Tad Marshall" <tad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:OtCKDy1QFHA.1172@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I wrote some code that works with a SQL Server 2000 database, and all
>>>> the examples I was finding used VB.NET, so that's what I picked as a
>>>> language.
>>>>
>>>> This wasn't the right choice for me. My background is in Win32
>>>> programming in C++, and I designed stuff that really wanted to use
>>>> unions and static casts, and VB.NET just let me down. The code works,
>>>> but it's very clumsy code and I'd rather have it in a language better
>>>> suited to what I'm doing.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to rewrite the code into some version of C, which will not be
>>>> that big a deal. I have just under 2000 lines of VB.NET code and it
>>>> will end up being around 1500 lines of either C++ or C# code.
>>>>
>>>> Given that I was a happy camper when I did Win32 C++ programming, is
>>>> C++ still the best language for me to use when I rewrite my VB.NET
>>>> code? Or would it be worthwhile for me to take a few days to become
>>>> comfortable with C# and use that instead?
>>>>
>>>> My impression so far is that C# is sort of a "cleaned up" version of
>>>> C++, with better syntax for the kinds of things that .NET does but
>>>> fundamentally fairly similar to C++. Does this seem like an accurate
>>>> assessment to you?
>>>>
>>>> Many of you must have switched from C++ to C#. Was it basically
>>>> painless and something you were happy to do? Or would you really have
>>>> been more happy staying with C++?
>>>>
>>>> I could go either way. There is nothing especially wrong with VB.NET,
>>>> but it just isn't the best language for me given my background and the
>>>> way that I like to write things. I am quite sure that I could
>>>> translate this code into either C++ or C# given a few days to get up to
>>>> speed on the .NET issues in C++ and learn the C# syntax. I am using a
>>>> small subset of .NET and have no issues with that part of the problem.
>>>> My C++ code could be managed or unmanaged so long as I can access the
>>>> ADO.NET and DateTime functions I'm using (which I guess would all be
>>>> managed code) and there is nothing that I am doing that requires
>>>> unmanaged code. But, my code would be better and I would be more
>>>> productive in working on it if it was in some flavor of C.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any advice that you feel like offering, it would be very
>>>> helpful to me. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Tad
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I'm using VS.NET 2003 on Windows XP, and VB.NET is working just
>>>> fine ... I do like IntelliSense and hit the tab key quite a lot as I
>>>> code. I assume that this works about the same way in C# and probably
>>>> C++, but I have no experience to support this conjecture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
.
- References:
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- From: Tad Marshall
- Re: C# and C++ (again)
- From: Nick Malik [Microsoft]
- Re: C# and C++ (again)
- From: Tad Marshall
- Re: C# and C++ (again)
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