Re: Is "Whidbey" going to de-skill developers ?
From: Bob Grommes (bob_at_bobgrommes.com)
Date: 01/11/05
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:56:45 -0700
Dhilip,
I know that it's easy to rationalize any rate of pay that permits one to
live better than one's fellow citizens, but if we are really gunning for a
global economy, guess what? Your fellow citizens are not limited to those
who live nearby. If (for instance) a company is willing to pay me (let's
say) $100 an hour to perform certain work, that is what the work is worth to
them. That value has everything to do with what they agree to pay and has
nothing whatever to do with the cost of living or the average wage or the
level of desperation where I happen to live. If it were connected with
need, then US developers would get $20 an hour and people in less affluent
areas would get $100. It isn't connected with need, it's connected with
value.
If someone on the other side of the planet knows that $100/hr is the going
rate, why ever would they quote less, assuming they are actually as skilled?
Regardless of how well they could or could not live on (say) one-fifth the
rate?
The answer is that due to differences is language, culture, time zone,
educational and work standards, the limits of telecommunication technology
vs face-to-face and so on, offshoring adds a great deal of cost. Software
development is very difficult under the best of circumstances and no one
wants to tie one hand behind their back and make it even harder. So
offshore concerns have to offer a rate low enough to overcome the resistance
of business to these impediments and handicaps.
Apparently this often involves an 80% discount or better, and I still see
more than a handful of such projects come back home after they fail
miserably (in fairness, often as much because of the customer as the
vendor).
Offshoring is attractive because it is the latest "silver bullet" that we
hope will alleviate the high cost of software development. It will fail
because it fixes nothing connected with the fundamental problem, which is
the inherent complexity of software development. The fact that it will take
pointy-haired bosses the better part of a generation to work this out
doesn't change the fact.
--Bob
"Dhilip Kumar" <ddhilip@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c4e6c98adb07dc9989680@msnews.microsoft.com...
> Bob,
>
> Not quite sure what you meant by third world, but I should say that your
> notion
> of programmers being exploited and paid slave wages is absolutely not
> true. If
> you take what programmers get paid in Asian countries and convert that
> into US
> dollars it sure will look like they are being paid peanuts. You miss the
> whole
> picture, that is, the cost of living, cost of basic amenities housing,
> travel
> and the general pay scale etc. If you take these into consideration,
> actually
> the programmers here get paid very well compared even to their skilled
> counter-
> parts in other professions. 14 hour days, sure it is there, but I guess
> its
> applicable to many skilled professions today rather than being a country
> specific phenomenon.
>
> And this phenomenon being self-destroying, I really doubt. Did any of
> those
> manufacturing jobs that the US lost to Japan & then China ever come back?
> Instead, Americans by and large re-trained themselves to be computer
> programmers and technicians. It will likely be the same this time except
> that
> the world is also catching up faster with America!
>
> Dhilip Kumar
>
> In article <#PDc4bQ8EHA.2124@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>, bob@bobgrommes.com
> says...
>> A much bigger practical threat than that to your livelihood is the
>> current
>> fashion of exploiting developers in the third world for slave wages, but
>> even that is a self-limiting phenomenon which will eventually destroy
>> itself.
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