Re: Without a flame please! Extreme Programming!

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From: Stede Troisi (stedetro_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/16/04 

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:09:59 -0500

Awsome reply Nick. Thanks for the realistic and clear answer. Most of my
experience comes from talking to the Extreme Programming Yahoo Group and the
comp.software.extreme-programming newsgroup.

I hate to say this but they seem almost like religious fanatics. Ganging
around their supreme cult leader Ron Jefrries. I acted like a jerk and
caused a few flames by accident (so I am no saint) but I guess it was out of
frustration.

Their views seem so stuck up. If you say anything that goes against their
views (and it seems like they are all consultants for some reason) then you
get 100 replies telling you that you are stupid and a troll. Amazing.

If this is what XP is like in practice then I will skip it, good or bad.
Maybe I am a Microsoft Baby and don't know what I am talking about.

Stede

"Nick Malik" <nickmalik@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Jxomd.617878$8_6.470551@attbi_s04...
> Hi Stede,
>
> > Is there anyone else on this board that feels Extreme Programming
> (although)
> > making some great points is a little overcooked, extreme and just plain
> > nonsense at times?
>
> To be honest, much of the heat surrounding XP comes from followers who
> insist that it solves every problem, which it clearly does not. On the
> other hand, the existing methods have been proven not to work. Adding
more
> and more project management, without good practices, has not yeilded lower
> cost software or higher quality software or more timely software. Into
the
> vacuum caused by this lack of success, XP rode like a white horse, and
many
> people decided that "different is better because it's different."
>
> The largest XP project, and the one that got the whole movement going, was
> Chrysler's C3 project, and it failed (sometime after Kent published the
> book). Perhaps that's why Kent Beck doesn't give many topics on XP any
> more. He's seen the results too, and knows that no amount of hyperbole
will
> take a failing project and make it into a successful one.
>
> Now that I'm done jumping on XP, let me say that I have become, over the
> past few years, an "Agilist." In other words, I regularly use many of the
> practices espoused in XP as well as other Agile methods like Scrum. In
> fact, I have taken the time to become a Certified Scrum Master and I am
> currently writing a book on the use of agile methods in Systems Analysis.
>
> From my experience, I would encourage all readers to read Kent Beck's
book:
> "Extreme Programming, Embrace Change" (with a healthy dose of
skepticism...
> some of his conclusions are naive, but his practices are sound and many of
> them work for small projects). Then, read "Agile Project Management with
> Scrum" by Ken Schwaber. I have found that, by combining Scrum practices
for
> PM, with XP practices for development, your projects really do move
faster,
> and you really do deliver more for less, in a timely manner.
>
> I almost don't believe it sometimes, but I look at my own project
schedules,
> and I see people who aren't working 80 hour weeks, and I software that has
> extensive unit tests, and I see very few features that no one asked for,
and
> I see the business users involved in the decision making process. I see
> things working like they should more so than ever before. (my
organization
> is still at little stuffy at the top, but at the bottom, the departments
are
> encouraged to "find a way that works, and make things work", so we've had
> the ability to try this out.)
>
> One success that I didn't expect: we've been busy exporting the Agile
> processes to our vendors and employees in India. They were NOT prepared
for
> it, but have embraced the opportunity to provide better customer
> satisfaction. I think it is working pretty well there now.
>
> So, don't pan the entire Agile Alliance because of the sometimes
"wild-eyed"
> nature of some of the followers of XP. To do so would be like judging an
> entire religion on the basis of a few radicals... it is neither fair nor
> balanced. I do not believe that all of these processes work in all
> scenarios. On the other hand, many do work in most scenarios, and some
will
> work to save a project that otherwise would fail, so this stuff should be
> shared.
>
> That's my opinion... this week anyway...
>
> --- Nick
>
>

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