Re: MCSD and MCSE

Tech Tip: Click here to run a free scan for Windows Errors and optimize PC performance

Hi Scott,

Well I do appreciate your insight into one POV, however typical or unconventional it might be. It has prompted me to really analyze
whether I think certification should hold any merit, and to be perfectly honest, from this conversation alone I have lowered the
regard in which I hold certifications, somewhat. I'll be searching for employees at some point (if I'm lucky enough to acquire
another client :) and I'll take your advice then.

I must say that it's a bit disconcerting to me that even neutral certification providers aren't establishing tests that really set
apart those that know the material from those that don't, in your experiences. After all, if companies are going to test certified
people on their own, then I completely understand why certification might not be very important to them. And I've always
recommended testing potential employees anyway. Therefore, I think that certifications should be more difficult to achieve so that
companies can feel satisfied that they don't have to rigorously test the candidates that hold the certs. But I'm sure it would take
a long time and a lot of proven candidates before your convinced that certs have any merit.

I'm still surprised you have found so many people that acquired certifications and couldn't "walk the walk", which I assumed to be
quite difficult for novice programmers to achieve. When I passed the MCAD tests I asked the woman at the testing facility how my
scores compared to the general scores she's witnessed in the past and she said that mine were higher than usual (not saying this
just to stroke my ego; I have enough experience where I'd just have given up if I got anything less :), and that most people get
about 10% higher than the minimum passing grade. So it seems that us validated certificate holders might benefit if they just
raised the minimum passing grade, assuming of course that the majority of candidates that couldn't "walk the walk" just passed
within that ~10%.

But I still believe that certifications should hold at least some merit in job hunting. Maybe that's just wishful thinking since
I'm certified and plan to acquire more certifications in the future, but I won't be looking for jobs anytime soon, just clients -
and clients don't necessarily know what tech HR people know - maybe that will work to my advantage. But at least in my case, I
hope, my certifications aren't misleading to clients or even HR people for that matter. Unfortunately, it seems that others have
made it so by leaning only on the certificates they have acquired, and that's a shame. I have only the elective remaining to
achieve MCSD, and I'm planning on getting MCPD, as time permits. I hope the MCPD tests are much harder than those for MCAD, but I
will say that I didn't find the MSF test to be so easy and I believe that many of the programmers I know wouldn't pass that test
even after studying for a month (and I mean that with all due respect :)

--
Dave Sexton

"Scott M." <s-mar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:e$vej4d%23GHA.4376@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Dave,

And I assume that these HR people you speak of hold resumes in a higher regard than certifications and degrees. I really don't
understand that line of thought.

Degrees carry weight, certs do not (for me and many others - not everybody). Resumes can, and certainly are padded often, but a
good interveriewer can generally weed out the fluff and get to the related work experience that is relevant. And, work experience
(if verifiable through references) is worth more than any degree or cert to an interviewer.

So, what criteria do you base your decision on inviting someone from a large pool of candidates, none of which you have met or
even spoken to, into your office (or online) for a skill assessment?

Verifiable work experience (not, I was the Cheif Software Architect, but the company is out of business and I don't have any
references), length of time in the field and degrees attained. Once I get them in the door for an interview, I'll ask technical
questions and see if they can "talk the talk". If I like the candidate, I'll either ask them to take a written skills assesment or
give them an assignment to complete that can demonstrate to me that they can "walk the walk".

For me, the cert means nothing. It doesn't factor in at all. This is based on my previous experiences (many) with cert holders
and I'm certainly aware that, for others (like yourself), the cert carries some weight. But, as I said in my first reply, I
don't believe that a cert truly shows a prospective employer much.

-Scott




.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: MCSD and MCSE
    ... I have known not to rely solely on the cert. ... sometimes I am looking for engineers, architects and/or developers. ... potential value to employers, but I really like how it turned out so I'm ... probably value degrees and/or certifications over resumes when choosing ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.general)
  • RE: Value of certifications
    ... end up sounding like every other cert company. ... If you want to make certifications more cost effective, ... Having people with IT security skills in commercial firms is a ... and not necessarily endorsed by BDO Kendalls. ...
    (Security-Basics)
  • Re: MCSD and MCSE
    ... Here I've tried to create a comparison of different credentials to each other ... relationships between the credentials and there potential value to employers, ... it's clear to me that certifications and degrees ... and I am in NO WAY saying that anyone who has a cert ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.general)
  • Re: MCSD and MCSE
    ... I think that certifications should be more difficult to achieve ... test the candidates that hold the certs. ... work experience (if verifiable through ... references) is worth more than any degree or cert to an interviewer. ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.general)
  • RE: Combobox and linked tables
    ... totally missed those options in the properties panel. ... In your query use the keyfield nothing else from the cert table. ... In your form change the cert field to a combobox. ... I have 3 tables (users, certifications, locations) and each has its own PK ...
    (microsoft.public.access.forms)