Re: MCSD and MCSE

Hi Scott,

I hear you Dave, I just disagree that you can say (with any generality)
whether or not a cert holder knows more than a non-cert holder.

I think experienced human resource personnel would disagree.

The mantra that has worked well for me in these situations is "show me what
you can do" don't "tell me what you can do".

I agree that's a better approach to finding the right employees for the job
than hiring only on the criteria of certifications and degrees. The point is,
who do you ask to show you what they can do? I would choose a person with a
cert or degree over someone without, because the person that possesses the
credentials are telling you what they can do and that's the first step. The
question I posed before tries to clear up whether or not certs actually tell
an employer what the person can do, and that's why I've asked for feedback
from people with a lot of experience interviewing job candidates with and
without certifications and degrees, but my experience tells me that MCSDs are
generally better solution developers.

Resumes are complete nonsense and I think they should be generally ignored by
any serious employers as credentials. Certs and degrees fill in the spot
nicely because they are neutral, just like SSL certs. They also look nice on
a wall if they aren't damaged during shipment :)

--
Dave Sexton

"Scott M." <s-mar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u42qFiT%23GHA.1224@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I hear you Dave, I just disagree that you can say (with any generality)
whether or not a cert holder knows more than a non-cert holder.

The mantra that has worked well for me in these situations is "show me what
you can do" don't "tell me what you can do".


"Dave Sexton" <dave@jwa[remove.this]online.com> wrote in message
news:eW3YpkS%23GHA.3456@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Scott,

[Just having some knowledge, e.g., enough to pass the tests, isn't usually
enough to potential employers so I guess the real question is, are MCSDs
generally more knowledgeable and experienced than those without
certification?]

I think only those experienced in interviewing could accurately answer
this

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this. My experience tells me
that employers care about what you know and what you can do for them, cert
or no cert. For programmers anyway, most employers ask for examples of
programs that the candidate has written or worked on and ask them to
explain their solution. Some employers give a "test" of their own during
an interview to weed the "talk the talkers" from the "walk the walkers".

True, but I was just stating that I think experienced interviewers know
better if MCSDs commonly "walk the walk" and whether those that aren't
certified generally just "talk the talk". In my limited experience working
with MCSDs and interviewing people in general, both points seem to be true.
If so then employers would benefit from holding MCSDs in a higher regard
over the general population of developers.

--
Dave Sexton






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