Re: my supervisor won't let me make my website in .net

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Hi Cor,

That everybody has the right to do it his way, is for me essential in a
free democracy, founded on a productive and economic expansion without
limits to get the best results.

This is a political statement. Politics is about political goals. Political
goals are goals which strive to change the rules by which a society
operates. Changing the rules by which a society operates, which may or may
not be a worthwhile endeavor, does not change the success or failure of an
individual in the course of his/her professional life.

Another way to explain what I'm talking about is to look at one's
professional career as a game. After all, we work for a living. Our living
is dependent upon our income. Our income is dependent upon our work, or our
career. Therefore, one's work can be viewed as a game in which the object is
to accumulate wealth, or income. It is very much like a game if you
disregard the emotional aspects of it.

A game has certain rules which dictate how the game is played. Regardless of
the rules, everyone plays by the same set of rules, and the success or
failure of an individual is dictated by how well the individual plays in the
context of the rules of the game. The rules of the game are the environment
in which we operate while playing the game.

The rules of the "game of life" are created by a combination of factors,
including cultural considerations (the societal mores and folkways of the
immediate environment), the laws of society, which is dictated by politics,
and those factors over which humans have no control, such as weather,
season, availability of natural resources, etc.

In many cases, the laws of society are of little or no importance. If the
immediate cultural environment is such that laws are ignored by common
agreement, those laws are of no effect. As an example from personal
experience, I might mention the speed laws in the immediate area of
Washington D.C. Interstate 95 has a speed limit of 65 Miles per hour. But
everyone drives at a minimum of 75 miles per hour. The police are not
concerned about this, and therefore, the cultural consensus is that the
speed law is of no consequence.

In some cases, the laws of society are overruled by considertations beyond
human control. Consider the recent hurricane that swept most of New Orleans
under water. I remember an incident in which a young man literally stole a
bus that was sitting idle in a parking lot (due to the fact that the local
political leaders were not aware of these busses), and drove several dozen
people to Austin, Texas. Was he prosecuted for his crime? No. He was
considered a hero. He saved lives.

Finally, the laws of society are changing all the time. Regardless of what
these laws are, everyone must play the game, and play to win. Survival is a
necessity. Prosperity is a desirable goal. And regardless of what the laws
are, we must deal with them, *as* they are.

Therefore, there is no politcal solution to stubbie's problem. He/she must
concentrate only on what will lead to his/her success or failure in his/her
career. Unless stubbie wants to make a career of politics, stubbie's rights,
and anyone's opinions of what they are or should be, is irrelevant to the
solution.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer

Presuming that God is "only an idea" -
Ideas exist.
Therefore, God exists.


"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uIGvLEESGHA.2176@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Kevin,

That everybody has the right to do it his way, is for me essential in a
free democracy, founded on a productive and economic expansion without
limits to get the best results.

Just my thoughts reading what you wrote,

Cor


"Kevin Spencer" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schreef in bericht
news:edGzY3DSGHA.776@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I can see a couple of other potential reasons why the supervisor may be
putting a stop to his efforts to migrate the web site to .Net.

First, stubbsie is a self-confessed web developer, and not a programmer.
stubbsie mentioned that he/she has " taken 3 official microsoft asp.net
and vb.net programming classes". Taking a few courses on programming, and
being a professional programmer are 2 entirely different things,
especially when it comes to OOP, more specifically .Net programming, and
even more importantly, ASP.Net programming, which incorporates OOP, .Net
programming, compiled programming, HTTP, HTML, JavaScript, CSS, XML, and
a number of other disciplines, as well as fully understanding the ASP.Net
programming model. ASP.Net programming is arguably the most difficult
type of .Net programming to do well. Taking a few courses in the
technology and one language will get your feet wet, and that's all. Yes,
you may be able to make a small web site that has a few dynamic aspects,
and make it work under limited circumstances without rigorous testing.
But we all know that it is seldom that an application (and an ASP.Net
application is not a web site, but an application) remains in any state
for very long. Applications evolve. New requirements are added; old
requirements change. And we know that while one can make something small
that "works," ultimately that small seed will become the foundation for
everything that follows. Is it robust? Is it extensible? Flexible?
Scalable? Well-architected? Are these the sort of things that a fladgling
programmer understands and knows how to implement?

It may well be that stubbsie's supervisor is aware of these
considerations, and stubbsie is not. It takes years of diligent practice
to make a competent developer. That's why programmers make more money
than web developers.

I would encourage stubbsie to continue to practice with ASP.Net and .Net
programming in general, on his/her own time, and perhaps to take on some
side work along the way. To aspire to become a programmer is an admirable
thing. To expect to be one after taking a few courses is naive.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer

Presuming that God is "only an idea" -
Ideas exist.
Therefore, God exists.

"Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <nickmalik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:F4mdnTjij_hCQ4rZRVn-iw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello again Cor,

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23ml28ABSGHA.776@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Nick,

I used probably to much words.

If he can get it, that he will be called a *WebDeveloper* instead of a
*WebDesigner*, than he is probably closer to his goal.

If he is *the* WebDeveloper, than nobody can tell him (or it should be
a webdeveloper as well) what should be the tools he wants to use. It
would be the same as telling a carpenter that he is not allowed to use
a hammer.

That was the meaning of my message. It did obviously not show up
between the lines.

:-)

Cor



Let me repeat what I hear you saying, to make sure I'm getting it right.
You are saying "If the OP is a web developer, he has the right to choose
.Net as his tool, and no one should have the right to say otherwise."
Is that close?

I agree on the surface. I can make a case for a situation where a web
developer can be told, for good reason, not to use .Net but that doesn't
apply to the OP, because he is NOT a web developer (in the eyes of his
supervisor). He said this himself. His title is "web designer" and his
supervisor is using the title, not the skillset, to justify the decision
to push back on .Net.

I think that you and I agree: being a web developer requires some common
skills. It also requires that you are hired into the job of a web
developer, with the title of web developer, in a department that
supports web developers. It appears that the OP is not employed as a
web developer. He is employed as a web designer. Different skills. Of
course, it is not uncommon to find a person with both sets of skills.
However, the supervisor has objected to his use of this extended skill
set in his web design work.

I can see two reasons: either the supervisor may lose control of his web
site (or his employee) if .Net is used, or the supervisor may have to
spend money if .Net is used.

Since the site itself won't cost money to deploy (according to Stubbie),
perhaps the cost will go to Stubbie himself! Perhaps by posting a web
site that uses .Net, then Stubbie can declare himself to be, in fact, a
professional web developer. Perhaps that is one of his goals. Perhaps,
in his organization, that makes him eligible for moving to a better paid
position. Perhaps his supervisor cannot afford him if that were to
happen. The other reason for "cost" may be the cost of keeping the web
app in good health in the event that the OP does, in fact, leave for
greener pastures. Web developers are more expensive to hire than web
designers.

On the other hand, perhaps the supervisor will not be allowed to keep
control over the web app if it uses .Net since that makes it an
"application" (according to some local policy), and "applications" are
managed by the "applications team." Therefore, using .Net could mean
that the supervisor loses control of the web site and potentially is
reprimanded for creating an application when he is not allowed to.

All of these are plausible situations. All of these would produce the
observed behavior. All are understandable, even justifiable. Stubbie
has to cope with them if he hopes to continue on his path of using .Net.

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--








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