Re: Confused: WS, SOA, Messaging any better than CORBA?

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From: Jules (Roseanna80_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 09/29/04 

Date: 29 Sep 2004 14:03:55 -0700

Many Thanks Hervey

I have started reading and playing around with SoapSender with TCP, as
you suggested. Its great stuff for doing soap servcies with TCP.

I have got a basic http server running with SoapReceiver and using
ashx file referencing WebHandler classes. The examples and
documentation I have been reading so far seem be based upon TCP based
one way messaging. ( As far as I can see http has to respond to the
request, even if its a 202 Accepted response.) I will keep looking
for better http examples.
    
Another query is how I can wsdl query a WebHandler based service,
based upon ashx files. I had hoped that I could still ?wsdl, or use
Add Web Reference against ashx file, but its only expecting asmx
files. Which is a shame, because discovering http services and
SoapReceiver message level is the desirable combination. Am I missing
something.

Thanks anyways

Jules

"Hervey Wilson [MSFT]" <herveyw.nospam@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<uWZ#RbBpEHA.1960@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>...
> Jules wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > I am still trying to grapple with Web Services, SOA, Messaging, so
> > please excuse my ignorance.
> >
> > I can build and consume (Request/response) Web services with Visual
> > studio pretty easily. Visual Studio, makes these look like Internet
> > accessable remote procedure calls RPC. Sort of like CORBA being
> > allowed through http enabled Internet firewalls.
> >
> > So now I try to understand SOA, and the emphasis it being a message
> > based paradigm. This is where I get confused, even WS Enhancements
> > appear to be generally based around request/response interactions. I
> > can see in the WSDL defitnion an opportunity to do a Request Message
> > only, or Response_Message only, but there seems to be little in the
> > WSE 2.0 to support this across http. So I appera to be limited to RPC
> > style interactions across http. I am reading Url SOA framework book,
> > and he is makes the distinction between RPC and Document based
> > payloads. So I am looking for some concrete examples of doing this in
> > WSE 2.0.
> >
> > My real confusion is that I don't see 'messages', I can receive
> > documents to consume. But there are no message Queues, so it doesn't
> > look like any MOM based infrastructure I have seen before. I cannot
> > queue up messages if processor overloaded, or the server is down. So
> > why say that SOA its message orientated. Are we really going to get a
> > WS standard that gives us true message orientated services. I know I
> > can stuff MSMQ on the end of a web services, but this is true Internet
> > wide service. (The web servcie may not be there. But I guess there is
> > nowhere on the Inter Netwrok to queue the messages anyway)
> >
> > My other confusion is that with WSE 2.0, to perform Request Only,
> > Notification only, interactions I can only do this on TCP based
> > channels (Because http only seems to support requests/response
> > interactions, which is a RPC pardigm.) So I seem to be constrained to
> > the RPC paradigm, for cross Internet interaction. If I am stuck with
> > TCP, I might as well continue with CORBA, since TCP ports will not get
> > through Internet Firewalls.
> >
> > At least with CORBA I have a mix of RPC and true messaging.
> >
> > Looking forward to the day that WS providing a Queued Messaging
> > standard.
> >
> > Many Thanks for any clarifications or reference to clearer SOA links.
> >
> > Jules
>
> SOAP supports one-way messaging, this model is implemented in both the
> .NET Framework Web Services (over HTTP) and is fully supported in WSE2
> over HTTP, TCP and other protocols that various developers have written
> support for, note that this list includes MSMQ which would give you the
> reliable queuing semantics that you are looking for.
>
> Check out the SoapSender and SoapReceiver classes, you'll see that that
> send / receive one-way messages (SoapEnvelopes). SoapClient and
> SoapService can also send / receive one-way and request-response
> messages. If you really want to get down to the plumbing, you can also
> check out the ISoapInputChannel and ISoapOutputChannel layer).
>
> Much of this is illustrated in the samples and described in the
> documentation. In addition, check out the Microsoft Web Services spoke
> on http://msdn.microsoft.com/webservices (general WS stuff) and
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/webservices/building/wse for more WSE specific
> material.

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