Re: Confused: WS, SOA, Messaging any better than CORBA?

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From: Hervey Wilson [MSFT] (herveyw.nospam_at_nospam.microsoft.com)
Date: 09/26/04 

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:20:22 -0700

Jules wrote:
> Hello
>
> I am still trying to grapple with Web Services, SOA, Messaging, so
> please excuse my ignorance.
>
> I can build and consume (Request/response) Web services with Visual
> studio pretty easily. Visual Studio, makes these look like Internet
> accessable remote procedure calls RPC. Sort of like CORBA being
> allowed through http enabled Internet firewalls.
>
> So now I try to understand SOA, and the emphasis it being a message
> based paradigm. This is where I get confused, even WS Enhancements
> appear to be generally based around request/response interactions. I
> can see in the WSDL defitnion an opportunity to do a Request Message
> only, or Response_Message only, but there seems to be little in the
> WSE 2.0 to support this across http. So I appera to be limited to RPC
> style interactions across http. I am reading Url SOA framework book,
> and he is makes the distinction between RPC and Document based
> payloads. So I am looking for some concrete examples of doing this in
> WSE 2.0.
>
> My real confusion is that I don't see 'messages', I can receive
> documents to consume. But there are no message Queues, so it doesn't
> look like any MOM based infrastructure I have seen before. I cannot
> queue up messages if processor overloaded, or the server is down. So
> why say that SOA its message orientated. Are we really going to get a
> WS standard that gives us true message orientated services. I know I
> can stuff MSMQ on the end of a web services, but this is true Internet
> wide service. (The web servcie may not be there. But I guess there is
> nowhere on the Inter Netwrok to queue the messages anyway)
>
> My other confusion is that with WSE 2.0, to perform Request Only,
> Notification only, interactions I can only do this on TCP based
> channels (Because http only seems to support requests/response
> interactions, which is a RPC pardigm.) So I seem to be constrained to
> the RPC paradigm, for cross Internet interaction. If I am stuck with
> TCP, I might as well continue with CORBA, since TCP ports will not get
> through Internet Firewalls.
>
> At least with CORBA I have a mix of RPC and true messaging.
>
> Looking forward to the day that WS providing a Queued Messaging
> standard.
>
> Many Thanks for any clarifications or reference to clearer SOA links.
>
> Jules

SOAP supports one-way messaging, this model is implemented in both the
.NET Framework Web Services (over HTTP) and is fully supported in WSE2
over HTTP, TCP and other protocols that various developers have written
support for, note that this list includes MSMQ which would give you the
reliable queuing semantics that you are looking for.

Check out the SoapSender and SoapReceiver classes, you'll see that that
send / receive one-way messages (SoapEnvelopes). SoapClient and
SoapService can also send / receive one-way and request-response
messages. If you really want to get down to the plumbing, you can also
check out the ISoapInputChannel and ISoapOutputChannel layer).

Much of this is illustrated in the samples and described in the
documentation. In addition, check out the Microsoft Web Services spoke
on http://msdn.microsoft.com/webservices (general WS stuff) and
http://msdn.microsoft.com/webservices/building/wse for more WSE specific
material. 

-- 
This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no rights.

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