Re: There has to be a better way to develop web applications.
- From: Ben <Ben@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 03:59:02 -0700
And YOU managed to miss Rob's point very well. He clearly stated he doesn't
even know if an ideal platform exists. But he seems to have enough faith in
Microsoft hearing and maybe even realizing a thing or two.
Rob has some very valid points here and - especially with MS's customer base
- they'd benefit from introducing a more ColdFusion-like RAD web platform.
Save the XML and SOAP and CodeBehind and ViewStates, etc. for Amazon-type
sites. Most developers can get by on a lighter-weight platform.
"Juan T. Llibre" wrote:
> You managed to evade the question very well.
>
> The question is :
> > What do you suggest as an alternate platform ?
>
> Or, are you only focused on bitching about MS ?
>
> What/who is doing the job better than MS's platform is doing ?
>
> Is that too difficult a question ?
>
> Or, do you aim to be recognized as the troll you were accused of being ?
>
> Please answer.
>
>
>
> Juan T. Llibre
> ASP.NET MVP
> http://asp.net.do/foros/
> Foros de ASP.NET en Español
> Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
> ======================
>
> "Rob R. Ainscough" <robains@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:e5JBN3yhFHA.3436@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > No more alternatives -- just get MS to freakin' pick one and stay with it -- stop
> > re-inventing the wheel every 5 years that does more or less the same thing. Evolve the
> > tool, stop dumping it and starting from scratch again -- the only message I see there
> > is that MS got lost and their "code re-use" went out the door -- which isn't exactly a
> > great selling point for their lastest and great new tools.
> >
> > But I am waiting for the hard back version of "How Microsoft got lost" -- version 3.1
> > due out this holiday season ;)
> >
> > Rob.
> >
> > "Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:emmKVvyhFHA.2852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Your objections are acknowledged.
> >>
> >> What do you suggest as an alternate platform ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Juan T. Llibre
> >> ASP.NET MVP
> >> http://asp.net.do/foros/
> >> Foros de ASP.NET en Español
> >> Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
> >> ======================
> >>
> >> "Rob R. Ainscough" <robains@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:O%23lgVnyhFHA.2424@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Juan,
> >>>
> >>> That is good, but think about what your just pointed out. 97% of the listed languages
> >>> are used by <2% of the dev community -- flexible yes, but important to RAD (rapid
> >>> application development), no.
> >>>
> >>> I have no problem with "Change", I do have a problem of change for the sake of change
> >>> OR change to benefit the few but penalizes the majority. I do find it funny you point
> >>> out a list of supported languages, some VERY archaic that can now be used with .NET.
> >>> Your sending a confusing message.
> >>>
> >>> I don't care that I would need to learn A new language (as in one), but it does me NO
> >>> good to learned several new languages all of which are simply different syntaxs (or
> >>> exist to bridge the gap) that are ultimately used to turn concepts into reality. All
> >>> languages ultimately do the same thing and people argue for days that language X is
> >>> better than language Y, but the reality is most good developers just want the best
> >>> tool available that is easiest to translate spec into code into reality -- as a
> >>> developer, I don't mind learning a new language, just make sure that is it --
> >>> businesses can't afford to keep sending developers off to learn the lastest fad
> >>> language which will go out of "favor" in a few years for the next "fad" language. Sure
> >>> it maybe a money making scheme for Microsoft, but it doesn't do the business world any
> >>> good. I mean, I see resumes all the time with a list of 90 languages long and someone
> >>> is "proud" of that fact -- think about it, it is really a pretty sad state of affairs.
> >>>
> >>> Rob.
> >>>
> >>> "Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>> news:OibOqGyhFHA.2424@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> re:
> >>>>> if you elect to use .NET Framework and ASP.NET your bound to MS server OS.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rob, take a look at :
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspx
> >>>> for a list of the languages/OS's which you can use with .Net.
> >>>>
> >>>> You may have to reconsider your statement
> >>>> quoted above after you see that page.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sure, the learning curve is steep, but it's no more
> >>>> steep than any other web platform's learning curve.
> >>>>
> >>>> Progress demands fast change.
> >>>>
> >>>> Complaining about the pace of change won't get you anywhere,
> >>>> except to the place where archaic stuff is archived.
> >>>>
> >>>> In any case, what do you suggest as an alternative ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Juan T. Llibre
> >>>> ASP.NET MVP
> >>>> http://asp.net.do/foros/
> >>>> Foros de ASP.NET en Español
> >>>> Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
> >>>> ======================
> >>>>
> >>>> "Rob R. Ainscough" <robains@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>>> news:uwEe2LxhFHA.328@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>I realize I'm learning web development and there is a STEEP learning curve, but so
> >>>>>far I've had to learn:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HTML
> >>>>> XML
> >>>>> JavaScript
> >>>>> ASP.NET using VB.NET
> >>>>> .NET Framework
> >>>>> ADO.NET
> >>>>> SSL
> >>>>> FormAuthentication
> >>>>> (and probably a few more things)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now call me crazy, but this hog pog of languages & technologies is ridiculous!! The
> >>>>> simplest of tasks become major R&D efforts (setting the enable state of a control on
> >>>>> another ASPX page in a frame for example). And XML, OMG that has got to be the most
> >>>>> ineffecient way to write out data I've ever seen -- the overhead is staggering!! So
> >>>>> far the research I've seen are "frames are evil" -- great so freakin' helpful. This
> >>>>> is just crazy, if the development community has to continue on in this bizarre
> >>>>> environment of languages and technology, then web application development is never
> >>>>> going to mature and become cost effective for companies to exploit.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is NOT an efficient way to get work done -- just the cost to get developers up
> >>>>> to speed on all the technology can doom a project from the start. The pipe dream of
> >>>>> using ASP.NET with VB.NET and .NET framework ONLY for web development is just
> >>>>> that -- a pipe dream, for only the simplest of applications could anyone get away
> >>>>> with just those three technology/tools.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just don't understand -- terms such as portability get tossed around, but the
> >>>>> bottom line is, if you elect to use .NET Framework and ASP.NET your bound to MS
> >>>>> server OS. And, if this is all done in the name of "portability" (at the cost of
> >>>>> performance) how often are you folks moving servers around and changing platforms??
> >>>>> If platforms are changing that frequently, that begs the question why?! It's like
> >>>>> building something for 5% that may need it while the majority don't -- so the
> >>>>> majority have to take the penalty. There has got to be a better way?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rob.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
.
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