Re: Penetration of ASP.NET - Developers continue to use VB6 & ASP

From: Ken (Ken_at_discussions.microsoft.com)
Date: 06/30/04 

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:38:01 -0700

actually, i thought the article was saying that the Windows API was dead and you're a good example of why. why develop for Windows when making a web based app is SO much easier to implement/install/etc.?

so he's not saying that asp.net is dead (that's some other guy's title). he's saying that Microsoft lost the app war with the web.

"Richard" wrote:

> If fun to see how everyone react to someone's opinion.
> I might not be the best programmer and know what everything means yet but I
> know for a fact that .NET is much better then all other I program in.
> It already saved me hours of development time on several website and it
> decreased the "space" being used with a few 100mb on sites.
>
> It already has been profitable for me and my friends for who I am making the
> sites. They already saved some bucks on the monthly renting webspace
> and all this is made possible by .NET. A friend of mine owns a gameshop and
> had a MS Access DB with Frontend build in running but since he's opening
> a new gameshop he needed that the program would work everywhere. Guess what,
> in just 4 days I made the entire program in .NET while I had 6 weeks to
> finish it.
>
> I dont care about money and stuff thats going on with programmers and so,
> heck I dont even get paid (althrou I wish I was lol) but I program because I
> like it.
> I learn new things because I like it. and you know, I like .NET :D
>
> Richard
>
> "dotnetforfood" <dotnetforfood@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
> news:64e12d46.0406161543.5cd762d@posting.google.com...
> > Joel Spolsky's new article "How Microsoft Lost the API War" at
> > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html
> > describes how .NET has failed, how classic VB6 and ASP continue to be
> > preferred by developers, and how Microsoft has lost control of the
> > preferred API.
> >
> > You really should read the article. Here are some excerpts:
> >
> > <Joel Spolsky>
> > "And yet, people aren't really using .NET much.
> > Oh sure, some of them are..."
> >
> > "instead of .NET unifying and simplifying, we have a big 6-way mess,
> > with everybody trying to figure out which development strategy to use
> > and whether they can afford to port their existing applications to
> > .NET.
> >
> > "No matter how consistent Microsoft is in their marketing message
> > ('just use .NET-trust us!'), most of their customers are still using
> > C, C++, Visual Basic 6.0, and classic ASP, not to mention all the
> > other development tools from other companies. And the ones that are
> > using .NET are using ASP.NET to develop web applications, which run on
> > a Windows server but don't require Windows clients, which is a key
> > point I'll talk about more when I talk about the web."
> >
> > "if you're developing a Windows GUI app today using Microsoft's
> > 'official' latest-and-greatest Windows programming environment,
> > WinForms, you're going to have to start over again in two years to
> > support Longhorn and Avalon. Which explains why WinForms is completely
> > stillborn. Hope you haven't invested too much in it. Jon Udell found a
> > slide from Microsoft labelled 'How Do I Pick Between Windows Forms and
> > Avalon?' and asks, 'Why do I have to pick between Windows Forms and
> > Avalon?' A good question, and one to which he finds no great answer."
> >
> > "So you've got the Windows API, you've got VB, and now you've got
> > .NET, in several language flavors, and don't get too attached to any
> > of that, because we're making Avalon, you see, which will only run on
> > the newest Microsoft operating system, which nobody will have for a
> > loooong time. And personally I still haven't had time to learn .NET
> > very deeply, and we haven't ported Fog Creek's two applications from
> > classic ASP and Visual Basic 6.0 to .NET because there's no return on
> > investment for us. None. It's just Fire and Motion as far as I'm
> > concerned..."
> >
> > "the Web user interface is about 80% there, and even without new web
> > browsers we can probably get 95% there. This is Good Enough for most
> > people and it's certainly good enough for developers, who have voted
> > to develop almost every significant new application as a web
> > application.
> >
> > Which means, suddenly, Microsoft's API doesn't matter so much. Web
> > applications don't require Windows.
> >
> > It's not that Microsoft didn't notice this was happening. Of course
> > they did, and when the implications became clear, they slammed on the
> > brakes. Promising new technologies like HTAs and DHTML were stopped in
> > their tracks. The Internet Explorer team seems to have disappeared;
> > they have been completely missing in action for several years. There's
> > no way Microsoft is going to allow DHTML to get any better than it
> > already is: it's just too dangerous to their core business, the rich
> > client. The big meme at Microsoft these days is: 'Microsoft is betting
> > the company on the rich client.'"
> >
> > "Much as I hate to say it, a huge chunk of developers have long since
> > moved to the web and refuse to move back. Most .NET developers are
> > ASP.NET developers, developing for Microsoft's web server...None of
> > this bodes well for Microsoft and the profits it enjoyed thanks to its
> > API power. The new API is HTML, and the new winners in the application
> > development marketplace will be the people who can make HTML sing.
> > </Joel Spolsky>
> >
> > The only sentence in the article that I disagree with is:
> > JS> "ASP.NET is brilliant; I've been working with web
> > JS> development for ten years and it's really just a
> > JS> generation ahead of everything out there."
> >
> > Whereas in my eyes ASP.NET is not a "generation ahead", but merely a
> > Microsoft rewrite of some well-known Perl modules available years ago
> > that:
> > - use templates to generate dynamic web pages and
> > - encrypt form data.
> >
> > dotnetforfood
> >
> > classic ASP rulez!!!
>
>
>

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