Re: VB.net and ASP.Net Typed Datasets

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Well, WinForm controls in an ASP.NET application is more work, no doubt and
it requires the client to have the .NET Framework installed, but if the OP
really needs these controls, that is a way to do it and still write the app.
using ASP.NET.

ASP.NET applications have many more advantages (see previous post) and so
they are very desirable over Windows Applications.

"RobinS" <RobinS@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:-MydnZsba44URAbYnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Okay; it just seems like a lot more work. Why not just use WinForms?
Robin S.
--------------------
"Scott M." <s-mar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uT9da4zLHHA.960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The point is that you ARE able to use Windows Forms & Windows Forms
controls in a web page.


"RobinS" <RobinS@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:bIKdnQR816it1AbYnZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
What's the point of that?

Thanks,
Robin S.
---------------------------------
"Scott M." <s-mar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:O6CB7hvLHHA.4848@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
True (and that has really been the point of this thread), but as I
mentioned in my earlier post, you can host Windows Forms via an ASP.NET
web page.


"RobinS" <RobinS@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:5L6dnc5mCslggwbYnZ2dnUVZ_oipnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Another con of a web-based application is the UI can not
be as robust as it can be if you build the app with Windows
Forms -- you don't have as much control.

Robin S.
------------------------------------
"Scott M." <s-mar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23JFXSJuLHHA.1248@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Rick,

Inline...

"Rick Vooys" <RickVooys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:98AC2FE4-D6E6-4604-A263-67DF9CC18A12@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Much thanks Scott, just to clarify some points the replys are
inline.

"Scott M." wrote:

See responses inline...


"Rick Vooys" <RickVooys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4863365F-6A07-4CAB-BCB5-17F5D1C4DBC0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Quick background, we are upgrading our old Access Application. We
have
upgraded the "backend" or data layer to SQL Server 2005.
Currently we have
the previous Access frontend linked via ODBC and are working on
creating a
new Frontend. The frontend only needs to be accessed via the
company
intranet, but in the future we would like to open up access for
clients to
view certain data.

For these reasons we wish to use ASP.net, to have a Smart Client.
Currently
we have designed a DAL and BLL using typed datasets with the
Dataset
designer.

But as we step through a section of our application, we are
noticing VAST
inadequacies with the web controls and the winform. I.E Combo
boxes do not
exist, the postbacks etc. We have tried some of the AJAX enabled
controls
but
they do not take away all the issues.

The web forms controls must render to the client as standard
client-side
code (HTML/CSS/JavaScript) - - there is no such thing as an HTML
combobox
and thus, there is no combobox web form control either. This is
not a .NET
deficciency, it is by design to allow for your client-side output
to be
consumed by any web client. What "vast" inadequacies have you
noticed? It
is possible that you just may not be aware of all the functionality
of these
powerful controls. As for postbacks, why do you list this as a
problem? If
you manage postbacks properly, you can greatly leverage your code.

I guess in my ignorance, I am not looking into the tools close
enough. I'm
sure there is a way to address each of my issues (only one field in
the drop
down, no autocomplete, etc).

Autocomplete is a feature of the browser, not your application. If
the user doesn't have it turned on, no control will give you this
feature. .NET is not limited in any way when it comes to controls,
it's just that in a web based application (ASP.NET) you don't know
what client (browser) the user will have and so you make sure that
you only send the client standard code (HTML/CSS?JavaScript). This
is the reason that web pages tend to have different data entry
controls than in a desktop application (for example, no combobox web
forms control). Again, this is not a .NET issue - it's how you make
web applications in any development platform.

I guess what I was looking for is an answer to
this question. Is ASP.net a good architecture for a Order/Data Entry
system?

Absolutely! As long as you rember my most previous comment above. I
can't imagine anything your clients would want that can't be achieved
with ASP.NET. You just go about things in a web application a bit
differently than you do in a client application.

It just seems as we are building our "demo" we lose alot of the as
you call
it below, interactivity. I'm sure with more practice we can find
workarounds
and still gain the benifets of a web application.

Absolutely again! For example, we don't have comboboxes in web
applications, but you can certainly place a textbox above a dropdown
list and with a little JavaScript combine the two controls so that
the user gets the features of a combobox.

I have a couple questions, and I'm not sure if this the best
forum for
answers to these questions but any help, even which forum would
be better
suited for me is appreciated.

1. Can we use the typed Datasets we have created with the custom
BLL with
Vb.net. I have yet to see any examples?

Sure. Why not? A DataSet is a class and all .NET classes are
designed to be
used in any .NET language (VB.NET being one of them). What
language did you
use to build your BLL? Didn't you say it was written in VB.NET? If
so, you
are already using DataSets with VB.NET, so I don't really follow
your
question here.

As for examples, haven't you looked at the MSDN library that comes
with
VS.NET? Simply look up DataSet and you'll see all kinds of samples
using
VB.NET. Do a google search on VB.NET DataSet and you'll get a
plethera of
results.


When I google this I get typed datasets being used in a web
application with
either VB.net or C#. I am trying to use a Typed Dataset we created
in this
manner and import it into a Desktop Application written in VB.net.
There
seems to be some issues with the syntax, during the typed dataset
init. it
says the configuration manager is not a member of the configuration
collection. Error # BC30456.

This sounds like a simple reference/importing issue. Are you saying
the DataSet was created in an ASP.NET project and you are now trying
to use it in a windows forms project?


Can someone point me in the direction
of where the information to do this would be. In theory with a
muti-tiered
application I should be able to keep those layers completely
independent
and
use either ASP.net or VB.net correct?

I think you are a bit confused here. ASP.NET is an architecture
and VB.NET
is a language. It's not an either or scenario. You build web
applications
(ASP.NET is the architecture of .NET web applications) in whatever
.NET
language you choose to work in. Certainly VB.NET can be used to
build
ASP.NET applications.

I am a bit confused here. I understand with ASP.net you can do the
programming in C# or VB.net and probably many more languages. What
would you
call it when you create the presentation layer and distributatble
application
in VB.net?

In ASP.NET there is no distributable anything - - all the processing
takes place on your server. Clients use their browsers to connect to
your server, your server processes the request and sends the client
back a result. All the client has to do is be able to understand
what is being sent to it, which is why ASP.NET applications produce
HTML, CSS and/or JavaScript - - these are all standard languages that
all browsers understand.

That is what I am trying to compare. I guess it would be a web
application vs desktop application?

Sounds like it. But, understand that whichever you go with, the
language is irrelevant, so you might want to drop "VB.NET" from your
analysis as this isn't going to make a difference. "ASP.NET" means
web-based application architecture (where the program is run on the
server). This can be written in any of the .NET languages. A
"Windows Forms" application is one that is distributed (installed) on
each client machine that wants to run it (like MS Office). These
applications can also be written in any of the .NET languages.

In general, web-based applications are the better approach. Here are
some pro's and con's:

Web-Based (ASP.NET)
Pro's
1. Server-side code processing, so you can program in the
language/architecture of your choice.
2. Client is only required to have a browser (thin-client).
3. No software installs, updates and patches for the client to
install.
4. Application scalability with no client impact.

Con's
1. Requires a robust server setup to handle expected volume.
2. Requires security measures be in place and monitored.
3. Can consume large amounts of bandwith.
4. Response time for the client is slower than a desktop
application.

Hope this helps.


-Scott




2. Is Microsoft going to take the Atlas/AJAX controls a step
further? Or
is
there something we can use. I am sure the VB.net controls are
much richer
because they do not depend on the Windows Web form, but I cannot
propose
to
roll out an application that makes data entry more difficult. Any
ideas on
how to streamline a ASP.net Web application to make it seem more
desktop
based? If I can keep the DAL and BLL the same, writing in VB.net
and then
in
a year another rewrite is acceptable, but if we need to re-write
those
layers
as well I will have to look at another plan of attack.

The DAL and BLL have nothing to do with controls since the user
doesn't
interact directly with them. As stated, you can write your DAL and
BLL in
whatever .NET language you like. If you feel the web forms
controls lack
the interactivity you need, you can look at hosting a windows form
from a
web page.

http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+form+in+ASP.NET&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8


Thanks ahead of time.


















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