Re: possible to connect 2 graphs?
From: Joe Johnson (joe_at_eirbase.com)
Date: 06/30/04
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:32:51 +0100
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:12:53 -0600, The March Hare (MVP) wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:48:44 +0100, Joe Johnson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:25:35 -0600, The March Hare (MVP) wrote:
>
>> No, outlining a solution is relevant. Challenging the legalities of
>> someone's domain name is not.
>
> When you posted that they weren't, the majority of the posts *were* about
> the solution. The domain issue came up was as an example of enze not
> understanding the medium he is using. This is just as he didn't listen in
> the past to the recommendations he was given about his posts and didn't
> understand about privacy. His business practices and knowledge are
> relevant to the overall discussion. I have run into a similar situation
> where a competitor registered a domain name that is a variant of mine. I
> have seen others use my trademark as a search term in Google AdWords and
> had to intervene. How would you feel if you sat on that side of the fence?
>
>> I'm
>> having trouble understanding what the heart of the discussion is about. You
>> obviously have issues with Enze, which you are perfectly entitled to, but
>> it's the approach you're taking that I object to.
>
> Stop trying to make this into a personal debate. I had issues with his
> deceptive commercial posts and his lack of understanding about the
> community aspect of newsgroups (you seem to have missed this part). It
> seems he has figured out where he has erred, at least in the former.
>
I'm not making this any more personal than you are. Read your last
paragraph again. "I had issues with 'his'..." and "'his' lack of
understanding.." That sounds personal to me. You aren't speaking in
generalities. You're speaking about one individual.
>> You expect Enze to be
>> more upfront with his commercial interests (which I agree with btw), but
>> you aren't being upfront with yours.
>
> What commercial interests do I have here? I am here, as previously stated,
> to help, to educate and to learn--that is what the community is for. Show
> me any post I have made that contradicts this. As explained earlier in
> this long discussion, I value my privacy (as apparently you do) and don't
> want spam and email with DS questions from posters so I don't use a real
> email address here. Why do you make these assumptions without thinking
> them through? Posters here have offered to contract out work to me and I
> have declined. If I was interested in consulting work I would use a
> standard usenet signature with my domain in it (this is accepted practice
> in many newsgroups including this one). Is this clear enough?
>
Sorry Phil, but you completely misunderstood my point. Enze has his
(commercial) interests and you have your (own) interests. I was merely
stating that you both have 'interests' - not that yours are commercial. I
didn't think I'd need to spell it out, but that should be clear enough now.
As for your privacy, I do respect it and would certainly not publish your
email address, despite the fact that it is included in the header of every
message you post. The only reason I refer to you as Phil (that is your name
isn't it?) is because I consider it polite to address people when talking
to them. In your case, "The March Hare" doesn't really lend itself to being
used as a name. I would feel awkward addressing you like, "So, The March
Hare, ..." or "I appreciate your help The March Hare". It just doesn't
work. Again, I respect your privacy though, so if you prefer, I'd be more
than happy to refer to you as "Mr Hare" or similar. Please advise.
>> You beat around the proverbial bush on
>> what seems like a personal vendetta.
>
> Why are you using charged words like "vendetta"? I am not bitter and I am
> trying to *improve* the newsgroup. Where have I made any ad hominem
> attack? Where have I made this personal? (and if you're going to harp on
> the domain name, please re-read the paragraph above)
>
I don't recall ever saying you were 'attacking' anyone. Please do not add
your own charged words and claim they are mine.
>> Please list out the issues you have and everyone would be in a much better
>> position to resolve them.
>
> What is this about "everyone"? The issue is about enze's postings. It
> looks like it has been resolved. You need to read the discussion from the
> beginning if you want to fully understand it. I'm not here to give you the
> condensed version.
>
>> And, I do have a good news reader. If you would take
>> the time to use the features of yours you would see that I'm using the same
>> newsreader as youself.
>
> Did you find it on my recommendation? I appreciate the gratitude you show
> me.
Is that what you want Phil? Do you want people to owe you gratitude for the
help you provide? Is there no such thing as simply helping people for the
sake of doing something good without expecting something in return?
>
>> again, this relates to his 'deceptive posts', which is Issue 1). Nothing
>> new here.
>
> Right, it started out with this simple issue. However, it took this
> escalation to get the point across to him. Hopefully, it is resolved.
>
>> You are correct, I don't know the history of this and I certainly don't
>> intend on reviewing the past 2 years worth of posts to find out. But, as an
>> independent observer, I could hardly blame anyone for being somewhat
>> emotional under the circumstances. However, I think you'll find that,
>> behind the calm facade, you are being just as emotional. It's just that
>> you're better able to conceal it due to your proficiency of English.
>
> I do care about this issue. A difference is that I have remained
> professional and stuck to reason. I have not insulted anyone or resorted
> to hyperbole.
and modest.. you forgot to add that you have also remained very modest.
Of course I can't speak for others, but I am personally very relieved that
you haven't resorted to hyperbole.
>
>> I have searched Google Groups like everyone else (apart from yourself
>> apparently). But there are no other solutions. There are suggestions that
>> solutions 'are technically possible' and there are phrases like, "I heard
>> of a guy who did it but I don't know how". And how many times have I read,
>> "it is non-trivial"? If I missed a description of something I can implement
>> today, then please show me. Obviously people could go off, spend weeks (if
>> not months) and implement it themselves, but that's not what anyone wants to hear.
>
> You make a statement about "everyone" as if you have some special knowledge
> of everyone except me who posts or lurks in this group. I have more
> experience of what people have posted here and whether they searched on
> Google beforehand than most. The same solutions as those in this thread
> have been outlined in the past, including by enze. So if you *had*
> searched on Google you would have found them without having to post in the
> first place and we would have been spared this discussion. And if you did
> find them and then posted, then why did you not refer to them in your
> original post?
Again, you go off on a tangent that avoids my very simple point. You say
"the same solutions have been outlined". Where are they? I'm not
questioning your vast experience so why mention it. The only point I was
making was that there do not appear to be other solutions that solve this
problem which don't involve extensive knowledge of DS or extensive coding.
If you really want to be helpful, then show me where these solutions are.
>
>> And therein lies the problem.. You think your opinion "carries the weight
>> of your contributions". In other words, you think because you have made
>> more contributions to this group, then your word is the gospel.
>
> It does carry the weight of my contributions. Here you choose a loaded
> word "gospel" again. Knowledge and experience count. The MVP award
> acknowledges expertise. The opinion of one who is experienced and awarded
> counts more than one who is just starting out. This doesn't mean that I'm
> always right as I have acknowledged when I have been corrected.
>
>> Your participation in this group is commendable and it's through the
>> dedication of people like yourself that make it all work. And your
>> experience may give you more credibility than most people have. But your
>> opinion doesn't carry any more weight than anyone else's.
>
> I'm sorry but your assertion is patently false. Opinion informed by
> experience and knowledge carries more weight. Try giving your opinion on
> something to an expert in a field you know little about, say Olympic target
> shooting, for example. Will your opinion count as much as a medal winner?
> Clearly not.
>
We are clearly discussing symantics here. Your definition of opinion is
valid in the way you describe it. I am referring to the democratic use of
the word in the sense that it equates to a 'vote'. Everybody is entitled to
have one and they always carry the same weight, regardless of one's
experience. Where the two definitions differ is the level of credibility
given to one opinion over another based on a persons (perceived) experience
in certain circumstances. I agree that people will choose the opinion of an
expert over that of a novice in this type of forum. But in the real social
(community) sense, experience is irrelevant. I am a strong believer of
freedom and democracy, and will continue to maintain that everyone's
opinion should be respected and valued equally regadless of experience.
>> We all have
>> experience. I've been writing code commercially since 1983 (albeit all on
>> Unix until now) but I wouldn't attempt to take the moral highground because
>> of it.
>
> The original issue is a simple one. The issues that have come out of that
> are relevant to the discussion and are educational for the community. And
> we've seen at least one of enze's customers come out of the woodwork and
> say that a filter worked for him. Try and get on with your development and
> let us know how enze's filter works for you. Then perhaps you will have
> contributed something valuable rather than exasperating one of the people
> who actually helps here.
Nobody is asking you to have this debate Phil (Mr Hare?). You could just as
easily get on with your work and save yourself the exasperation. But I will
save you the trouble of deciding because I'm really getting bored with this
non-productive banter which obviously isn't helping either of us. I have
work to do and you have experience to dispense.
Good luck and, for future reference, please let me know how you prefer to
be addressed.
Joe
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