Re: "Multigenerational" MCSEs?!?

I agree with you in sentament 100%, but these days, it seems everyone claims
to have experience and knowledge, and with hundreds of identical
certification-factory resume's on the desk, someone has to find a way to sort
through them.

Personally, I am equally "overlooked" because I dont have a college degree,
and spent many years just wanting to be given a chance, but now that I have
seen the other side of an interview table, and have had to skim literally
HUNDREDS of resume's to pick the 5 to 10 max that we want to bring in for
that face to face, I understand the dilema a little bit, and although I have
been equally as shocked by completely ignorant paper MCSEs as I have been
overwhelmed by brilliance of an uncertifed person, when all you're looking at
is the paper, you really have no choice but to overgeneralize.

The reality is that there is no substitute for experience, and usually, that
experience generates personal contacts. Most people would hire someone
recommended by a personal friend in the industry before going to a stack of
resume's any day, and that kind of personal networking usually comes from
real-world experiences anyway, so what we really are talking about here is
some way to differentiate between people you dont know. Assuming you can't
possibly spend an hour or two with EVERY canidate, it is unfortunate, but you
have to use some measure of the experience. "Multigenerational" MCSE is just
one, and seems as valid as any other I can think of.

Remember, as a consultant, the certification often gets you the jobs. Your
performance can only help you KEEP the job.

"blastingfonda" wrote:

> Steve Jones wrote:
> > "blastingfonda" wrote:
> >
> > I think that's EXACTLY what they're doing - They're using your past
> > experience (or lack thereof) as a measuring stick... How can you
> guarantee
> > that someone who's been in the industry only long enough to recognize
> Windows
> > 2003 has a lot of experience? They're weeding out the noobs.. We
> all
> > started out as one...
>
> But a recent cert doesn't mean a person is necessarily a noob. I have
> 6+ years of experience in desktop support and Systems / Network
> Administration and never NEEDED a piece of paper that supposedly
> validated my skills during that time period. In fact, I thought the
> MCSE was a huge revenue-generating scam by Microsoft, the testing
> companies and a billion dollar test prep industry to con people with no
> IT experience into thinking they will bump up from their $5.00 / hour
> fry cook jobs to $80,000 / year Sys Admin jobs.
>
> I'm still pretty skeptical about the value of the certification in lieu
> of acutal experience, although now I'm in the game of getting a cert as
> well. Why? Because experience plus a college degree at a top school
> isn't enough. You need every little edge in the marketplace these days.
> And yeah, employers have gone from saying degree or equivalent
> experience to requiring degree + experience + certs. However, again,
> that doesn't have anything to do with this "multigenerational" MCSE
> thing.
>
> > When I interview, although I definitely look for the recent cert
> (without
> > which, you are either rusty on your skills, or can't pass the new
> tests), I
> > also ask questions about older versions, or <gasp> DOS! Also, a
> cursory
> > knowledge of those things that Windows has to deal with to work in
> any given
> > environment is a plus..
>
> You can ascertain DOS skills by asking them those questions. Lazy
> recruiters / hiring managers will make the invalid assumption that a
> cert is a substitute for real-world skill.
>
> > Even if you're only going to use Windows, how can you migrate AWAY
> from
> > Linux or Netware without knowing something about it? How can you
> > troubleshoot a network problem without SOME Cisco or other networking
>
> > knowledge? You get the point - Being in the industry long enough to
> have
> > been around to get your older MCSE certs implies that you've been
> around long
> > enough to see various support situations that will make you a more
> efficient
> > MCSE in today's world.
>
> Well yes, being well rounded is great. But again, there are plenty of
> people with years of experience under their belt who are recent MCSEs.
> Don't overgeneralize...
>
> > I wouldn't want to hire a desktop support person even today who
> couldn't
> > tell me the gory details of how to prepare and use a DOS (or Win98 -
> I'll
> > make it easy) boot disk... Too many troubleshooting tasks come up
> that
> > require a bit of low-level knowledge that you're just not going to
> get simply
> > by passing the current exams.
> >
> > -Steve
>
> Yes, ANYONE with marginal experience supporting Win boxes knows how to
> create a boot disk. But having a piece of paper and little experience
> versus having years of experience supporting hundreds of users, I would
> expect a hiring manager to respect the experience, not the number of
> papers they had. (Though unfortunately more are respecting the paper
> over experience....)
>
>
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: "Multigenerational" MCSEs?!?
    ... But a recent cert doesn't mean a person is necessarily a noob. ... 6+ years of experience in desktop support and Systems / Network ... validated my skills during that time period. ... that doesn't have anything to do with this "multigenerational" MCSE ...
    (microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse)
  • RE: Redhat Cert update (off spring of Fate or Redhat)
    ... it felt good to get the RHCT because it was one of the few certs in the industry that actually made you pass the test by DOING the test. ... but I would rank RHCE right up there with the CCIE cert. ... > took for the MCSE were in this ball park and the MCSE for NT is still ... For the certification to be useful in the marketplace, ...
    (RedHat)
  • Re: Only Old Timers need to apply.
    ... I think the reason there are a lot less MCSEs is the fact that certification ... The cert is meaningless. ... my opinion, and I am sure other people would agree, they only way the MCSE ... A written exam, and a 1 or 2 day lab exam. ...
    (microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse)
  • Re: How important is RH certification?
    ... but i have rarely seen one that requires RH certification. ... The whole MCSE bootcamp thing did nothing more than ensure you had to ... also makes the cert a little easier to do. ... but do not flaunt them on my CV,I flaunt my experience. ...
    (linux.redhat)
  • Re: What kind of MCSE?
    ... Microsoft certification, MCP in W95, I could write my own ticket, and it ... only got better when I finished my MCSE 6 months later. ... a MCDST does have a good chance ... > of walking into a $30K support job that he or she can grow with. ...
    (microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse)