Re: 70-291 - ouch

It shows a lack of maturity that you won't look at the real point of my post
which was based around your approach to the guy. I did not disagree with the
point that experience is a must for properly passing a cert. With no
experience you are completely dependent on books and your ability to absorb
that knowledge. $125 is a lot of money in my world to risk on a cert test I
MIGHT pass.

What I disagreed with was the condescending approach you have to those you
feel are less intelligent than you. My analogy was not flawed. Certs are
big business for Microsoft, CompTia, Cisco and others. These companies have
built an industry around their certification programs and thus have built
accreditation with it. Certifications by definition are supposed to be a
demonstration of one's expertise in their field. However, IT certs are
different because of the industry that built them. There are few
apprenticeship programs in IT and VERY FEW opportunities to start in the
industry, specifically at the server level. If you do start at the help desk
or in computer repair, etc you are not necessarily exposed to the server
environment leaving you few opportunities to gain the valuable experience
needed. It is kind of a chicken or egg thing. Some want so badly to work in
Admin positions but can not because certs are required, yet their are
pundents like yourself that say they shouldn't work on certs until they have
the experience.

I started in Linux and did so because of the arrogance that exists with
Microsoft techs like yourself. In the open source community ignorance is not
scoffed upon. If you are willing to learn there a lot of people in the open
source community willing to teach you. There is A LOT of value to this
approach and it is not outside the realm of thought that Microsoft techs
could do the same. I understand the whole value thing. You want so badly to
believe that achieving your cert makes you a valuable, even irreplaceable
person but it only demonstrates that you know how to manage a server. It
does not show that you know how to communicate effectively, it does not show
that you can bring any inherent value to your position outside of the server
room. As a business owner, you wouldn't make it past my application process.

Before I get flamed for mentioning Linux and Open Source I want to point out
that I am NOT anti-Microsoft. The Microsoft OS is still the most popular and
widely used OS in the world. There are a lot of valuable uses for Linux
products (Apache, Bind) but on the desktop and the file server realm
Microsoft is much more user-friendly.

Regards,

Chris

"Frisbee®" wrote:

"socrazy143" <socrazy143@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:DEB96C81-7A30-4A1C-BA24-84062726ED4A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am truly not interested in a flame fight but I have to respond to this.
First and foremost I think you were a bit harsh and made assumptions about
this guy that were unwarranted. He has made it clear that he took a
nonchalant approach to the exam and will try harder next time. He
admitted
zero experience but then again there are a lot of degrees that are issued
at
universities to people with zero experience. Employers require these
people
to have the degree before they are allowed to gain the experience and that
can be the case for IT certs as well. It is IDEAL to have prior
experience
but it is also possible to set up your own server and follow the guides
(MS
Press thus far is my favorite) and pass the exam.

Your analogy is flawed. Degrees are not certifications. Certifications are
not degrees. You go to college to learn. At the end of the learning
process, you are tested. Pass the tests and you eventually will get a
degree. While it certainly is possible to take tests and get degrees
without ever attending classes, I doubt a potential employer would respect
that.

> My biggest problem is your approach. I have gathered from the newsgroups
that you are a fairly well respected person in here and that can be
dangerous. Leadership is a double-edged sword that can slay you if your
ego
gets in the way. You had an opportunity to help a new person in the IT
field, perhaps even mentor but you chose to chastise him.

So basically, the best way to help someone learn how to research for a job
which will require research skills is to do the research for him. Gotcha.

Maybe you are rolling your eyes right now, plotting my imminent doom,
whatever. My hope is that you will change your approach, hop off the high
horse and be more of a help than a hindrance.

I've sold my high horse and bought a pony. Thanks for your advice.

GIDDYAP!



.

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