Re: Server Migration SBS 2000 to New Server Box
From: Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP] (jeff_at_cfisolutions.com)
Date: 01/25/05
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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:08:04 -0600
I tell you what I do like about USENET. We both get to talk.
It doesn't matter if someone asks a great question or a dumb one. As long as
there is someone willing to try to speak to their level of skill, they get
help, somebody tries to help. The universal turn-off for everyone is people
pretending to be smarter than they are, and using flaming to back away.
But better than that, even if the first guy who asked the question decides
that he can't use the advice returned, dozens of other people get to read
the thread and draw their own conclusions. And they get the information that
is offered.
I don't have any regrets for posting on you thread. It's not a marriage for
life, and in a really odd way, you get a message you can use despite _your_
protest. You can go now with the knowledge that if you try the plan you
proposed and when the SFN restore blows up just as I told you, you can say
to yourself "that guy actually did try to warn me about that". If you don't
use the method you proposed, then I just saved you about 4 hrs of headache,
and that's going to really irritate you, I know.
You can now go prove to yourself that you can use ADMT or not. And if you
succeed, then I'm sure you will be proud that you were successful without
paying me for anything, and yet you get to rework all the workstations in
the network and redo all the desktop settings. And since you have already
convinced me that you intend to do all this for free, I'm very proud of your
work ethic, even if it is disruptive to your own life and you business
customers at the same time. I'm sorry, but I really don't see where I have
done you any harm.
The simplest thing for you do to if you didn't want my advice would have
been to not read it. If you knew that going in, it makes me wonder why you
didn't just kill the post I made. Maybe you do want something for nothing,
and that's the great thing about the Managed Partner Support groups. They
have to support you simply because you post there because MS already got
it's downpayment from you.
Since you are apparently unwilling to get paid for your time, or to even
optimize your time for a flat fee, it doesn't surprise me at all that you
are annoyed that I might produce 150 pgs of work project information and
made it available for a price far below what it's worth to the IT Pro buying
it. As crazy as that sound, it makes sense to pretty much everyone I talk to
except the occasional guy like you. So just think of this post as meant for
the rest of the world besides you.
You can assume that I was trying to talk everyone else out of trying to use
that plan you proposed. And that advice was free, to them and you.
***********************************************************
For anyone else convinced that I'm just trying to force money out of their
pockets, your MS supported options are below.
***********************************************************
Microsoft documents and supports three ways to move from an existing Windows
domain network to SBS 2003:
1. Scratch Install
2. In-Place Upgrade
3. ADMT Migration.
WHERE TO FIND MS METHOD DOCUMENTATION
You can download the documentation MS provides to support those approaches
from the SBS website. The webpage you can use to reach the links from is 3
pages long, it's here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/upgrade/default.mspx
1. Scratch install is documented as part of the Windows Small Business
Server 2003 Getting Started Guide. The link to that 117 page document is
here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sbs/2003/plan/gsg/sbsgsgab.mspx
2. In-Place Upgrade is documented for Windows 2000/2003 Server is in Chapter
3C of the reference above, and in Chapter 3B for SBS 2000.
3. NT 4.0 Server or SBS 4.5 upgrade via ADMT Migration is described in a 47
page document at this location:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=16415
For Windows 2000 or 2003, or for SBS 2000 or 2003 upgrade/migration via
ADMT, you should refer to this 50 page document:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/d/c/6dccf9b4-d915-4c95-b5af-100b89e02add/SBS_MigratingSBS2k.doc
"PMC" <pmchefalo-spamfree@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C99A18CD-1B4A-4D1C-B1F3-D28949F255EE@microsoft.com...
> Ho-hum.
>
> Who's Harry, and why do I care about him? Oh, yeah, he wrote that "chatty
> insider" best practices book.
>
> Yes, it is your goal to talk me and every one else into buying a Swing
kit.
> Why are you denying it? Methinks thou dost protest too much.
>
> I basically consider your response to be FUD. I guess you're saying that
> Directory restore doesn't work, so OK, that's the message I getting here.
I
> saw other advice in the google groups index of this list suggesting it. I
> have used the ADMT to successfully migrate a NT domain to a W2K3 domain,
> albeit with a name change, so maybe that's what I should explore next.
> Supposedly it can be used to reconstruct W2K domains as well as migrate.
>
> And, since I will keep the existing server intact, why do you call the
plan
> a "slow crash and demolition"? If step five didn't work, I'd re-install
the
> existing server. See step 8. No harm done, just my time lost.
>
> Perhaps you are addicted to charging per hour spent rather than results
> achieved? My customer isn't going to pay me more if it takes longer,
'cause
> I'm not going to charge him more. You withholding or giving advice is
> somewhat immaterial: you're not going to get the $200, ever. I don't like
> your Web site, or your style. I was hoping that you'd get the hint and not
> reply to this thread, but ...
>
> Ho-hum.
>
> Hey, here's an idea! I'll do my dumb plan, then things will be broken, and
I
> can go to the Microsoft Partner break-fix newsgroup and get official help
> there ...
>
> Isn't nice to know you can still get flamed on USENET?
>
>
> "Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" wrote:
>
> > Hello PMC,
> >
> > It's not my goal to talk you or anyone else into purchasing a Swing It!!
> > Kit, not at all, not if it doesn't make sense to both of us. The kit
forms a
> > contract that ties me to your success, just as much as it ties you
> > optimistically to my work plan. It's my goal to see everyone possible
stop
> > going through the shreader you are walking into. But it's my goal to
help a
> > lot more people that just a handful here and there, and that's why I'm
using
> > a business model that requires the kit to cost something reasonable, you
get
> > certainty of skilled help, but you get something substantial: a
permanent
> > resellable skill.
> >
> > In another 45-60 days....buy Harry's book where the chapter I've written
on
> > Swing Migration will be included. The reason I agreed to publish the
> > information in a book with no income to me involved is so that someone
like
> > you can afford to get that book, get a great value, even if you can't
> > justify my support services and tools in the Kit.
> >
> > So why not give away the Swing Docs if it's going to be in a book I make
> > nothing from? Because I owe Harry a favor, and he can make a couple
bucks
> > per book, and get the word out. I also owe a lot of favors to a bunch of
SBS
> > MVPs who helped me over the years and with Swing tests, and making that
book
> > a part of their exposure as authors means I bring attention to their
> > chapters, not just mine. That helps them and Harry, and that help all of
us
> > help the educated community as a whole, and that helps me because I'm
part
> > of the community. We all win.
> >
> > My goal, my total goal with Swing It!! Kits goes like this:
> >
> > + The IT Pro does the job in less time spent, with less confusion
involved,
> > and without causing a problem. He makes more money per hour, too. You
get
> > more time off, and better quality work.
> > + The Biz owner gets the job done in less total time, probably less
total
> > cost, with less impact on the business, less frustration to the staff
for
> > needless changes. The business makes more when it runs with less down
time
> > and complication. That pays for upgrades.
> > + The staff retains all the things they have set the way they like it at
> > their workstations. Everything works on the next day, the same way.
> >
> > If it hasn't become apparent yet, I'm trying to make Swing Migration go
big.
> > Help everyone. IT Pros worldwide, the biz owners, the SBS MVPs, Harry
> > Brelsford, the SBS Community UGs I now get to speak to by going around
the
> > world, and even my friends in SBS Team (who need more positive
experiences
> > illustrated by us helping them to see how we help ourselves dealing with
> > things they didn't think mattered to us). The difference in price and
> > service bundle between the book vs. the Reference Kit vs. the Technician
Kit
> > will all make perfect sense, but attract different people. I really
enjoy
> > thinking about the scale at which that can make my professional
contribution
> > help a lot of people, and it gives me a way to make a living too, at
least
> > for a while.
> >
> > I won't have to feel guilty telling anyone that the information in
Harry's
> > book is out somewhat out of date the day it ships, primarily because I'm
> > moving forward with newer, better information. I'll feel really good
about
> > making the Kit documentation better and better, cover more scenarios,
better
> > details in what will be available that same day as a Swing It!! Kit.
Harry
> > realizes the huge audience he has in book sales will still want the
book,
> > and yet extend to people who wouldn't otherwise hear about the option to
buy
> > a Swing It!! Kit, including tools, support and troubleshooting tips. At
> > least the book will include the correct step order some of us SBS MVPs
made
> > work last summer on SBS 2000 to 2003 upgrades. It will not be the most
> > efficient way to do a Swing, but it will at least be a good plan, and a
damn
> > good deal.
> >
> >
> > **********
> >
> > I think if you and your customer were to make a call to me, I could help
you
> > get that cost covered and make the customer love the idea. I'm not
joking. I
> > would love to help you out, help your customer out.
> >
> > You are proposing to do what you probably estimate to be about 12 hrs
work,
> > but is really going to be about 18, or more, depending upon your skill.
A
> > Swing Migration could complete that in 10-12 and you would have no
> > confusion, and you wouldn't be discovering new issues along the way.
> >
> > The plan you have isn't going to work, not cleanly, not well, not
billable,
> > not reliable. At least, you are going to be about 12 hrs into the
project
> > and find out that you still don't have a working configuration.
> >
> > You will run in to SFN breaks on the new server as soon as you do the
> > restore from backup in DSRM mode. I consider bare metal recovery on SBS
2000
> > to be an embarrassing joke to MS because it's so ugly bad. That's what
you
> > are building into your upgrade.
> >
> > All the SBS applications will be broken at your Step 5. In Step 6, you
> > probably have a good chance that you will need to rip out the TCP/IP
> > services to reconfigure them. At Step 7 you will feel a lot like you are
> > rally at step 1. You will have to rerun the entire SBS setup, and that's
> > going to fix those SFN breaks, but you will still need to do all the
same
> > configuration work to fix many things. You will have a really dirty,
> > probably not much more reliable installation at that point.
> >
> > If I were your customer, I wouldn't want you doing what you propose to
my
> > server if it was optional. I mean this in the most kind way. What you
> > outlined there isn't an upgrade, it's a slow crash and demolition
followed
> > by a patched together recovery process that, as yet, I don't think you
have
> > ever done one of these by this method before? If you want to learn a
> > process, don't waste your time on this approach, it's not going to work.
> >
> >
> >
> > "PMC" <pmchefalo-spamfree@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:B5AF2B4D-8A3F-4A20-BA2E-8379421B6015@microsoft.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This is a popular subject so I will relate what I've learned and just
ask
> > > for comments / criticism re any oversights I have in my plan.
> > >
> > > Background: I have a new client with a SBS 2000 installation using
ISA,
> > > Exchange, OWA, Trend antivirus, file sharing. His business has grown
to 18
> > > users. No second DC, no RAID, backup inconsistent, current server is
an
> > > over-burdened AMD desktop PC with a lot of memory but misconfigured
hard
> > > disks, and is a single point of failure. Running Health Monitor
actually
> > > crashes server (all red marks!)
> > >
> > > Prior to my coming on-site, they purchased a new "server" (actually a
P4
> > > workstation class machine) to upgrade the facility but the previous
> > provider
> > > couldn't figure out how to migrate. (Being used as print server
> > presently!)
> > > At this point I am afraid to try to migrate him to SBS 2003 due to
license
> > > costs, lack of immediate bang-for-buck for problems above. Perhaps the
> > next
> > > phase after I am established as a consultant to his business.
> > >
> > > Plan - I will:
> > >
> > > 1. Configure RAID 1 on the new server. (Preformat with NTFS using
WINPE
> > > environment?)
> > > 2. Install SBS 2000 on the new server. (How far? Use "fake" domain
name?)
> > > Configure volumes like old server, but with appropriate sizes.
> > > 3. Install compatible backup device on old server. Do a full NTbackup
of
> > the
> > > existing SBS domain including file shares, Exchange & sysvol. (Can I
> > backup
> > > to new "fake" SBS domain volume instead? Permission issues, with no
domain
> > > trust relationship possible in SBS?)
> > > 4. Remove backup device from old server and install in new server (if
> > > network backup not possible.)
> > > 5. Reboot new server offline (or on isolated subnet?) and do Directory
> > > Services Restore Mode using backup of old server. New server now
"thinks"
> > it
> > > is DC for existing network. (Which password do I use for Restore Mode,
old
> > > server or new?)
> > > 6. Configure network IP configurations on new server identical to old
> > > server. Shutdown.
> > > 7. Physically replace old server with new, network-wise
(internal/external
> > > connections.) Take old server offline.
> > > 8. Reboot new server and test. Restore old server if new one has
issues.
> > > 9. New server SBS elements work?! Install anti-virus server if OK.
> > > 10. Flush old server, upgrade processor and install new Windows 2000
> > Server
> > > Standard.
> > > 11. Add old server to domain as member server, then run DCPromo.
Replicate
> > AD.
> > > 12. Split off anti-virus server duties, add print services to second
DC.
> > > 13. DFS for file shares?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advice for comments, any answers to questions you can
provide.
> > >
> > > And Jeff Middleton, TIA for your swing method, but not in budget. As a
> > > private consultant, I have to spend time unpaid rather than buy stuff
and
> > > charge clients. My time is both invaluable and valueless, as long as I
> > still
> > > sleep once in a while.
> >
> >
> >
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