Re: Upgrading to SBS2003 - realistic to do ourselves?

From: Pat (pat_at_reemoovethismp-m.com)
Date: 11/03/04 

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:02:22 -0500

Thanks for the reply,

Your right - this sort of work can sink a lot of time. Because the cost
will be based on the actual hours spent, it could swing quite a bit one way
or the other from the estimates.

I was under the impression that a straight upgrade was a reasonable "do it
yourself" job, and perhaps wold involve less disruption (could be done at
night or at a time more convenient for the business). I have relatively
new, standard hardware (Dell PowerEdge 600SC with a pair of mirrored IDE
drives) so I expect it should be smooth. But at you point out, there does
always seems to be something that doesn't go as planned, which is why I'm
somewhat hestitant to plunge in with this.

In answer to your other question, my time is worth quite a bit (about the
same as the consultants). But in either case (going with a consultant or
doing it myself) my time will be involved. The consultant wants to remove
the server for a day (even for the upgrade). That will cause some
disruption and loss of email (we currently how our own). And once its back
there will be more time involved in rejoining the clients workstations (more
disruptions). So I thought it was reasonable to explore both options.

Thanks again, and any other feedback is greatly appreciated! -Pat

"N. Hughes" <quadrantcomputerNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:urkKXORwEHA.2624@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Pat,
> I've done a fair few SBS in-place upgrades and my experience is, no matter
> how prepared you are, there's always something which will surface to bite
> you. As an example, Just done an inplace upgrade this last weekend for 7
> workstations plus server, and after stuffing around with trying to locate
> NIC drivers (no, SBS2K3 didn't have the driver included), application
> patches, Special ISA filters for certain apps, and then finding and
> correcting typos, my time came to 18 hours. It seems to me your
> consultant's quote of $800 is a bargain. Give me his/her email
address -I'd
> like him/her to work with me! If you don't mind my asking, what's your
time
> worth?
> Cheers
> N. Hughes
>
> "Pat" <pat@reemoovethismp-m.com> wrote in message
> news:egQrMaIwEHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Thanks Jeff for your reply.
> >
> > I was actually leaning towards the clean install as this would wipe out
> > traces of old programs and various fiddlings that I've done. But I
don't
> > think my IT consultant would be very inclined to investing in your Swing
> > IT
> > kit, regardless of how beneficial it might be (I'm just guessing though,
> > and
> > will mention it to him). Although I agree that it sounds like something
> > best suited to IT Pros, and not business owners, I am curious to know a
> > little more about it. Do you have any other info available? Who is
the
> > target audience for this and what sort of background do you assume they
> > have? Also, just out of curiosity, with your kit in hand how much time
> > would I need to spend to perform a clean install upgrade?
> >
> > Thanks again for your feedback,
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" <jeff@cfisolutions.com> wrote in message
> > news:e5rAPbGwEHA.2944@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> I have long held the position that it's an entirely different concept
to
> > be
> >> responsible for managing a server that was setup properly and is
running,
> > as
> >> opposed to upgrading or building a server and get it all sorted out.
They
> >> really are difference job functions.
> >>
> >> Typically, most business owners are well server to have an experience
IT
> > Pro
> >> do the upgrades because they have learned incrementally on every
install
> > and
> >> troubleshoot they have done...you learn 100% on your own server, have
not
> >> other server to compare it too...and frankly, you would be surprised
how
> >> much there is that isn't documented about such things.
> >>
> >> I think that most people probably can handle an In-Place upgrade of a
> > clean
> >> condition SBS 2000 to SBS 2003...but I also don't think that it's the
> >> best
> >> idea to in-place upgrade SBS 2000 boxes....not in most cases.
> >>
> >> If the hardware is in great shape, very new (not more than 2+ yrs old),
> > then
> >> I say an in-place is certainly your option. But my long term view on
this
> > is
> >> that you will be reinstalling that entire server again before you
change
> >> versions from SBS 2003...that's just a common reality. As such, you
have
> > the
> >> option to reinstall, maybe even buy new hardware now and do this so you
> >> really don't have to revisit it again for 3 yrs (fingers crossed), or
you
> >> are doing an incremental install that you probably will have to repeat.
> >>
> >> I think that the prices you were quoted where quite fair, honestly. You
> > also
> >> need to include any cost of AV or Backup program upgrades you will
need.
> >>
> >> When it came time for me to look at what I was going to do for my
> > customers
> >> upgrading to SBS 2000, I couldn't make sense of in-place upgrading
> > them...I
> >> didn't think it was the professional thing to do. That lead me to
search
> > for
> >> ways to get a clean install done...and in the case of new hardware
> > purchase,
> >> that's much easier. Anyway, when I produced the documentation I'm
selling
> >> now as a Swing It!! Kit, I had in mind that many IT Pros would want to
> > know
> >> how to do what I documented, and that it was complicated enough, and
will
> >> evolve and change enough, that I should sell and support the concept
> >> on-going. As such, if you want a roadmap of how to do a clean install
as
> >> your upgrade, I have that to offer you...and that would give you a
> > complete
> >> set of documentation for $200...which obviously is less than what you
> >> were
> >> quoted by the IT Pro....but I don't think it's the better deal for most
> > end
> >> users. I think the better deal would be for the IT Pro to buy the docs
> >> and
> >> charge you $1000 to do the upgrade as a clean install Swing Migration.
:)
> >>
> >> I really don't encourage business owners or managers to do IT work of
> >> this
> >> complexity, particularly in a really small office. You just don't
> > appreciate
> >> how nerve wracking it is to shut a business down and run into
unexpected
> >> problems...knowing the whole time that you have to have the company
> > running
> >> again on Monday. Swing migration makes it possible to reduce that risk,
> > but
> >> it's still a major project.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Bill Swan" <bill@nospamfirstresponseit.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:uFj4ffFwEHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> > Hi Pat... we all had to start somewhere but don't start on a ' live '
> >> > server...lol
> >> >
> >> > Can you do a test on a spare pc to just get a feel. I appreciate it
> >> > will
> >> not
> >> > have live data (maybe you can restore data from existing, don't have
it
> > on
> >> > the same LAN as your exisitng server though, server name and domain
> > needs
> >> to
> >> > be same)
> >> >
> >> > Mirror the hard drive of the new test server so you have a copy to
try
> >> > another upgrade and not wait for another reinstall etc.
> >> >
> >> > How long will this take ? Will it be cost effective saving the quoted
> > cost
> >> ?
> >> > If you are not in a rush then give it a go.
> >> >
> >> > Personally I would quote the other way round...clean install takes
> > longer
> >> > and needs more geeky stuff...lol
> >> >
> >> > If not already aware do pop over to 2003 NG too
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > www.smallbizserver.net (2000 and 2003)
> >> >
> >> > microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz2000 (2000 NG)
> >> >
> >> > microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs (2003 NG)
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&group=microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz2000
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&group=microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs
> >> >
> >> > http://www.sbslinks.com/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Pat" <pat@reemoovethismp-m.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:%23e19jBCwEHA.344@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> > >I guess I don't know how geeky I am (I'm an engineer - does that
count
> > as
> >> > > geeky? :^)
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't really know what Live Communication Server is, so I don't
> >> > > know
> >> how
> >> > > useful it would be. But the quotes I've received did not include
> > this,
> >> > > and
> >> > > it wasn't something I was planning on installing originally.
Should
> > I?
> >> > >
> >> > > So far I haven't had to call "Mothership" - the good souls in this
> > news
> >> > > group have been able to guide me through all the tight spots I've
> >> > > encountered so far. But if I needed to, I've never used the two
free
> >> > > calls
> >> > > that I think came with SBS when I purchased it. Hopefully those
> > haven't
> >> > > expired.
> >> > >
> >> > > Based on your response, it sounds like you're advising using the
> >> > > consultant.
> >> > > Is that right?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks for the reply. -Pat
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz SBS Rocks [MVP] "
> >> > > <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
> >> > > wrote
> >> > > in message news:%232MebS8vEHA.2804@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >> > >> How geeky are you? Honestly. And remember you also get Live
> >> > >> Communication Server as part of SA and if you have that installed,
> >> > >> that's an added complexity. And are you willing to Call
> >> > >> "Mothership"
> >> > >> SBS [PSS] if you get stuck and pay $245?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> You planning inplace on the same hardware or clean on new
hardware?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Do you know you have good backups? Backups of that SQL data?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Connection to the internet at all times in case you get stuck?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Honestly, I don't consider that steep [especially the clean
install
> >> one]
> >> > >> at all.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Pat wrote:
> >> > >> > We purchased SA when we got SBS2000 and would now like to do the
> >> > > upgrade.
> >> > >> > I talked to the consultant who orginally set up our server and
he
> >> quote
> >> > > $800
> >> > >> > for the upgrade ($1200 for a clean install). That seems a
> >> > >> > little
> >> > > steep
> >> > >> > considering we're a very small business with only 4 client
> > computers.
> >> > > I've
> >> > >> > been doing all the systems admin for our server for the pass few
> >> years
> >> > > and
> >> > >> > was wondering how realistic it would be for me do the the
upgrade
> >> > > myself.
> >> > >> > I've heard it's not too bad to do, even for a novice, but wanted
> >> > >> > to
> >> > >> > hear
> >> > > the
> >> > >> > opinions of the experts here. Currently we have everything
> > installed
> >> > >> > (Exchange, SQL, ISA, etc) in a standard 2 nic configuration with
a
> >> > > router
> >> > >> > between the external nic and cable modem). Also, assuming this
is
> > a
> >> > >> > realistic "do it yourself" job, any links that would walk me
> > through
> >> > >> > the
> >> > >> > process would be greatly appreciated.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Thanks for the help and candid opinions.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Pat
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>

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