Re: Upgrading to SBS2003 - realistic to do ourselves?
From: Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP] (jeff_at_cfisolutions.com)
Date: 11/02/04
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:34:26 -0600
Hey Pat,
I do have information I'm emailing to folks who request more info...and
hopefully my website will come out of construction by the end of the week,
and all the stuff I have will be available to read or download from there
directly.
As you have deduced...I'm assuming that the Swing It!! Kit is of interest to
the IT Pros because we are talking about a pretty long day of work. Fact is,
most owners don't realize how much work it takes to do a proper installation
because they rarely see it done. Most IT Pros do as much as possible
offsite...both to reduce impact on the business and to make the process more
cost effective for the customer.
A scratch install of SBS remains on of the big lies of the business world.
It may take but 2.5hrs to push the CDs, but the complete installation of the
server is a typical 6 hr minimum process for scratch install. If that's done
with an existing network, add another 20-45 minutes per workstation, minimum
for cleanup, and it's still not going to look like the day before.
A migration that preserves the domain is always preferable, but in a small
network, it's harder to justify...because the customer doesn't see the
value. But in a 15 node network, you can have a day of workstation issues to
resolve, even if the server upgrade is just a day.
Swing Migration is something that I think a first try on it probably takes
you between 8-10hrs total, depending upon your experience....and how much
you try to do more than one thing at once...and if you have new hardware
coming in. The key point is that the server install is the end game...no
workstation issues.
For an IT Pro, that makes the proposal a lot easier to write.
Now, for an owner or DIY (Do it yourself) type scenario....honestly, most
all the keystrokes needed are spelled out in my document...but I think it's
a tough process to go through if it's totally new for you. My assumption
when I wrote this reference was that most IT Pros would quickly realize that
70-80% of the information is familiar, even if they never saw it strung
together this way.
I really haven't thought about it as a "blind" trial for a business
owner...and that's pretty obvious because when you look at the amount of
information, the only reason you would go for it is if you have done this
before and know how awful the alternative is.
If it sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of looking at this
yourself....I'm really suggesting that you consider this as a value that
usually pays for itself in the first project, but there's the starting
assumption that for an IT Pro...doing upgrades is a way to make money. I
believe that owners doing upgrades is a way to lose money. I'm just being
honest. I don't think SBS owners, as a rule, should be doing that work. I
have far less concern about maintaining a server than building one.
"Pat" <pat@reemoovethismp-m.com> wrote in message
news:egQrMaIwEHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Thanks Jeff for your reply.
>
> I was actually leaning towards the clean install as this would wipe out
> traces of old programs and various fiddlings that I've done. But I don't
> think my IT consultant would be very inclined to investing in your Swing
IT
> kit, regardless of how beneficial it might be (I'm just guessing though,
and
> will mention it to him). Although I agree that it sounds like something
> best suited to IT Pros, and not business owners, I am curious to know a
> little more about it. Do you have any other info available? Who is the
> target audience for this and what sort of background do you assume they
> have? Also, just out of curiosity, with your kit in hand how much time
> would I need to spend to perform a clean install upgrade?
>
> Thanks again for your feedback,
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> "Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" <jeff@cfisolutions.com> wrote in message
> news:e5rAPbGwEHA.2944@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > I have long held the position that it's an entirely different concept to
> be
> > responsible for managing a server that was setup properly and is
running,
> as
> > opposed to upgrading or building a server and get it all sorted out.
They
> > really are difference job functions.
> >
> > Typically, most business owners are well server to have an experience IT
> Pro
> > do the upgrades because they have learned incrementally on every install
> and
> > troubleshoot they have done...you learn 100% on your own server, have
not
> > other server to compare it too...and frankly, you would be surprised how
> > much there is that isn't documented about such things.
> >
> > I think that most people probably can handle an In-Place upgrade of a
> clean
> > condition SBS 2000 to SBS 2003...but I also don't think that it's the
best
> > idea to in-place upgrade SBS 2000 boxes....not in most cases.
> >
> > If the hardware is in great shape, very new (not more than 2+ yrs old),
> then
> > I say an in-place is certainly your option. But my long term view on
this
> is
> > that you will be reinstalling that entire server again before you change
> > versions from SBS 2003...that's just a common reality. As such, you have
> the
> > option to reinstall, maybe even buy new hardware now and do this so you
> > really don't have to revisit it again for 3 yrs (fingers crossed), or
you
> > are doing an incremental install that you probably will have to repeat.
> >
> > I think that the prices you were quoted where quite fair, honestly. You
> also
> > need to include any cost of AV or Backup program upgrades you will need.
> >
> > When it came time for me to look at what I was going to do for my
> customers
> > upgrading to SBS 2000, I couldn't make sense of in-place upgrading
> them...I
> > didn't think it was the professional thing to do. That lead me to search
> for
> > ways to get a clean install done...and in the case of new hardware
> purchase,
> > that's much easier. Anyway, when I produced the documentation I'm
selling
> > now as a Swing It!! Kit, I had in mind that many IT Pros would want to
> know
> > how to do what I documented, and that it was complicated enough, and
will
> > evolve and change enough, that I should sell and support the concept
> > on-going. As such, if you want a roadmap of how to do a clean install as
> > your upgrade, I have that to offer you...and that would give you a
> complete
> > set of documentation for $200...which obviously is less than what you
were
> > quoted by the IT Pro....but I don't think it's the better deal for most
> end
> > users. I think the better deal would be for the IT Pro to buy the docs
and
> > charge you $1000 to do the upgrade as a clean install Swing Migration.
:)
> >
> > I really don't encourage business owners or managers to do IT work of
this
> > complexity, particularly in a really small office. You just don't
> appreciate
> > how nerve wracking it is to shut a business down and run into unexpected
> > problems...knowing the whole time that you have to have the company
> running
> > again on Monday. Swing migration makes it possible to reduce that risk,
> but
> > it's still a major project.
> >
> >
> > "Bill Swan" <bill@nospamfirstresponseit.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:uFj4ffFwEHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Hi Pat... we all had to start somewhere but don't start on a ' live '
> > > server...lol
> > >
> > > Can you do a test on a spare pc to just get a feel. I appreciate it
will
> > not
> > > have live data (maybe you can restore data from existing, don't have
it
> on
> > > the same LAN as your exisitng server though, server name and domain
> needs
> > to
> > > be same)
> > >
> > > Mirror the hard drive of the new test server so you have a copy to try
> > > another upgrade and not wait for another reinstall etc.
> > >
> > > How long will this take ? Will it be cost effective saving the quoted
> cost
> > ?
> > > If you are not in a rush then give it a go.
> > >
> > > Personally I would quote the other way round...clean install takes
> longer
> > > and needs more geeky stuff...lol
> > >
> > > If not already aware do pop over to 2003 NG too
> > >
> > > --
> > > www.smallbizserver.net (2000 and 2003)
> > >
> > > microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz2000 (2000 NG)
> > >
> > > microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs (2003 NG)
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&group=microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz2000
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&group=microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs
> > >
> > > http://www.sbslinks.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Pat" <pat@reemoovethismp-m.com> wrote in message
> > > news:%23e19jBCwEHA.344@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > >I guess I don't know how geeky I am (I'm an engineer - does that
count
> as
> > > > geeky? :^)
> > > >
> > > > I don't really know what Live Communication Server is, so I don't
know
> > how
> > > > useful it would be. But the quotes I've received did not include
> this,
> > > > and
> > > > it wasn't something I was planning on installing originally. Should
> I?
> > > >
> > > > So far I haven't had to call "Mothership" - the good souls in this
> news
> > > > group have been able to guide me through all the tight spots I've
> > > > encountered so far. But if I needed to, I've never used the two
free
> > > > calls
> > > > that I think came with SBS when I purchased it. Hopefully those
> haven't
> > > > expired.
> > > >
> > > > Based on your response, it sounds like you're advising using the
> > > > consultant.
> > > > Is that right?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the reply. -Pat
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz SBS Rocks [MVP] "
<sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
> > > > wrote
> > > > in message news:%232MebS8vEHA.2804@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > >> How geeky are you? Honestly. And remember you also get Live
> > > >> Communication Server as part of SA and if you have that installed,
> > > >> that's an added complexity. And are you willing to Call
"Mothership"
> > > >> SBS [PSS] if you get stuck and pay $245?
> > > >>
> > > >> You planning inplace on the same hardware or clean on new hardware?
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you know you have good backups? Backups of that SQL data?
> > > >>
> > > >> Connection to the internet at all times in case you get stuck?
> > > >>
> > > >> Honestly, I don't consider that steep [especially the clean install
> > one]
> > > >> at all.
> > > >>
> > > >> Pat wrote:
> > > >> > We purchased SA when we got SBS2000 and would now like to do the
> > > > upgrade.
> > > >> > I talked to the consultant who orginally set up our server and he
> > quote
> > > > $800
> > > >> > for the upgrade ($1200 for a clean install). That seems a
little
> > > > steep
> > > >> > considering we're a very small business with only 4 client
> computers.
> > > > I've
> > > >> > been doing all the systems admin for our server for the pass few
> > years
> > > > and
> > > >> > was wondering how realistic it would be for me do the the
upgrade
> > > > myself.
> > > >> > I've heard it's not too bad to do, even for a novice, but wanted
to
> > > >> > hear
> > > > the
> > > >> > opinions of the experts here. Currently we have everything
> installed
> > > >> > (Exchange, SQL, ISA, etc) in a standard 2 nic configuration with
a
> > > > router
> > > >> > between the external nic and cable modem). Also, assuming this
is
> a
> > > >> > realistic "do it yourself" job, any links that would walk me
> through
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > process would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks for the help and candid opinions.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Pat
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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- Previous message: Pat: "Re: Upgrading to SBS2003 - realistic to do ourselves?"
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