Re: Must learn how to write VBA.

Tech-Archive recommends: Repair Windows Errors & Optimize Windows Performance

Larry,

We are, it appears, of a like mind. I certainly understand Microsoft's
motivation and why Access contains many of the features it does. I believe
they understand that there are organizations where the IT department will not
or can not support what the group needs. Many of these turn to Access
because it is an easy start. Many line managers under estimate the
complexity of creating a good database application. They will turn to
someone in their department who had a class in school, wrote a couple of
Excel macros, or is a hobbiest to provde the solution. Many times these
people honestly believe they can do it. No slight to them, they just have
not had the experience required to provide a solid solution.

Case in point. In the late '80s, The Internal Consulting Department of the
bank where my wife was an IT project manager sent her to a one week class in
Dbase III. After completing the class, her manager said since she had
completed the class, he wanted her to write a library system to track all the
books, manuals, periodicals, and other documents for the department.
Gleefully, she took a run at it. After a week of trying, she came to me and
asked for help, realizing she was in over her head. Dbase III, of course,
did not have the tools Access has to help a novice work through it.

Now, although I understand Microsoft's motivation and that within reason, a
novice can achieve a functioning application, there is one serious down side
that haunts us all. Because there are so many poorly designed Access
applications and because IT professionals have never seen beyond the
"training wheels", Access has earned an undeserved poor reputation as a
development product in those circles.

Where I am now, Access is not an approved or supported product, but various
business units use it world wide. IT is so negative toward Access, I am not
allowed to directly attach to Oracle where our data comes from. It is
required that I use Excel to download a csv file, then use the data in the
csv files.

Allthough unpractical, I wish for Access to be two products - One pretty
much as is and the other with all the training wheels and crutches removed.

"Larry Daugherty" wrote:

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

"Klatuu" <Klatuu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:DBA2D52B-4FBC-44D0-806F-A3E2ED77338E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really
good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by
many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when
I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to
work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I
concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book
on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head,
it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can
understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner
level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off
using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of
Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They
don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they
teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.


"chris.nebinger@xxxxxxxxx" wrote:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not
recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you
can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on
Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for
VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The
Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go
for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are
other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also
lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores
if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

"M. Thomas" <M. Thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message
news:5ACC9720-64EB-436E-8A96-5BC520D9209D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and
hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me
dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a
lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be
maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of
SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop
everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas






.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Which Doc to Read - 10g or 9i ?
    ... Performance Tuning Guide ... There is nothing more comprehensive than the manuals. ... There will also be plenty of things you won't find in the books mentioned ... this thread started about performance and what developers can do ...
    (comp.databases.oracle.server)
  • Re: Which Doc to Read - 10g or 9i ?
    ... Bob Jones wrote: ... There will also be plenty of things you won't find in the books ... "So can I learn from the manuals. ... this thread started about performance and what developers can do ...
    (comp.databases.oracle.server)
  • Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
    ... I claim copyright and payment for the books I write about it. ... makes it easier for beginners and intermediate developers to understand. ... it's unreasonable to expect readers to pay for it. ... could offer a download for a price which would be the same as what you ...
    (php.general)
  • Re: Must learn how to write VBA.
    ... Newbies want to become journeymen and they want to ... there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the ... mentioned books). ...
    (microsoft.public.access.gettingstarted)
  • Re: Im tired of books where....
    ... So *that's* the motivation in all those books in which the heroine's ... denial that she fantasized that after the mysterious anonymous phone call ... promising to Reveal All she had tipped off the entire police force, ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)