Re: One check box or the other

I can see where a check box with three options could be useful (it rings a
bell from somewhere), but in this case it could be puzzling to the user
because logically the opposite of Requested is not really Received. The two
separate choices are much clearer, I think, and can each be summed up with a
word or two on the label. But thanks for pointing it out, and thanks again
for your help. This really cleans up a few things in the design before it
gets much farther along. This project is a redesign in the first place, so
I want to get it nice and tidy before it receives live data.

"Klatuu" <Klatuu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3AAB6A71-3016-473E-A97F-8096E546132E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My pleasure to help, BruceM. Enjoy your time off. We are in total
agreement. I really believe the one integer field will serve you better.
I
understand your confusion with the Triple State Option group. It took me
a
time or two until the light came on. BTW, you can actually do the same
with a
check box so it returns
True, False, or Null.

"BruceM" wrote:

I wasn't understanding the Null value part about the option group. I
don't
work with option groups all that often, so wasn't thinking in terms of an
option whereby neither button is selected. I had imagined a third button
for "Neither". So thank you for the thorough explanation. I now see
exactly what I need to do; what's more, this is something I can bring
with
me to other projects.
I think I will go with the integer field rather than the two Boolean
fields.
I'm OK with hidden controls when necessary, but I prefer fewer controls
and
fields when there is a reasonable way to accomplish that. Since there is
already going to be an option group it may as well be the bound control.
That will also eliminate the need for coding to set the values of the
check
boxes.
I'm off next week, with quite a bit to accomplish today before I leave,
so I
may not get back to this project until the week after next, but as I said
I
see exactly how this works now, and have no doubt I can get it working as
intended. Thanks again.

"Klatuu" <Klatuu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:336C6686-D27F-432E-BB74-33FC561C6F4C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks for the kudos, BruceM. I appreciate your hanging in there.
Maybe
I
can clear it up for you.

First, you would need the two check boxes bound to the two controls,
Requested and Received. This will give you access to these data
elements
so
they will update with the record. Now, so as not to confuse the user,
we
want to hide them. To do that, set these properties for both check
boxes:
Visible = No
Tab Stop = No
Default Value = False

Now the user will not see the controls and tabbing through the form
will
skip them.
Then you need the option group with 2 option buttons. For the Option
Group,
set the Default Value to Null. Set the Option Value for Required to 0
and
the Option Value for Received to 1.

Put this code (with names changed where necessary) in the After Update
event
of the option group. If you do not click on either option button, both
check
boxes will remain False. When you click on the Requested option
button,
the
Requested check box will be changed to True and the Received Check box
will
stay False. When you click on the received option button, the
Requested
check box = change to False and the Received check box will change to
True.

Select Case Me.opgTripleChoice
Case is Null
Me.chkOne = False
Me.chkTwo = False
Case is 0
Me.chkOne = True
Me.chkTwo = False
Case is 1
Me.chkOne = False
Me.chkTwo = True
End Select

Then this code goes in the Form's Current event. Since the Option
Group
is
not bound to any field in the table, it will not be affected by moving
to
different record or inserting a new record. The check boxes will, so
when
we
get a change in current record, the Current event fires and makes the
option
group reflect what is in the record:

If Me.NewRecord Then 'We want to start with null
Me.opgTripleChoice = Null
ElseIf Me.chkRequested = True And Me.chkReceived = False Then
Me.optTripeChoice = 0
ElseIf Me.chkRequested = False And Me.chkReceived = True Then
Me.optTripeChoice = 1
Else
Me.opgTripleChoice = Null
End If

Now, there is another way you could do this. Rather than having two
boolean
fields, one for requested and one for received, use one interger field
and
bind it to the option group. Use the value in that field to determine
the
status of requested or received or neither.



"BruceM" wrote:

I often read your posts, and have a lot of respect for what you have
to
offer in this group. Please realize that I looked at your code for
quite
some time, but could not figure out what I was supposed to do. It
isn't
that I am ignoring what you said, but rather that I was not able to
understand it. If I was ignoring it I would either have not responded
(not
my style) or I would have thanked you for the suggestion and left it
at
that
(also not my way of doing things). Instead I tried to understand, and
asked
questions where I could not.
After reading your most recent post, I think I understand that you are
suggesting I use an option group to control the hidden check boxes.
By
the
way, it wouldn't be a big deal to switch to an option group, and
forget
about the check boxes. In either case I could have a two-item option
group
when needed, and a three-item group the rest of the time.

"Klatuu" <Klatuu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3EFDE551-12C8-48A7-92B9-84C98B944D11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Yes, you are missing the point. If you review the code I posted, it
provides
exactly what you are stating.
If neither option is selected, both fields in your table will be
False
(unchecked)
If option 1 is selected, Requested will be True and Received will be
False
If option 2 is selected, Requested will be False and Received will
be
True.

You do have need for a third option. You options, as you are
wanting
is
what the functionality of the Triple State Option Group provides.

I don't see the controls as redundant. I see them as providing the
functionality you require. If you choose to use only the bound
check
boxes,
then you will have to write code in the after update event of each
to
evaluate the other and determine whether it is valid or not. Or you
could
use
the form's Before Update event.

Using hidden controls as the bound controls is a very accepted and
usual
way
to do things. Think of using a Combo to look up a specific record.
Because
of the way a combo works, it becomes problemactic to use it as a
bound
control in this instance. So, we use a text box, but since the user
can
already see the value in the combo, why show it to them twice?

If you choose not to use the suggestion I provided, that's fine, but
I
really do think it is the easiest to implement and control.

"BruceM" wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to look at this and to reply, but I'm
not
following your suggestion. First, I should have said that both
boxes
can't
be checked, but in some cases both can be unchecked.
When a vendor's certificate is due to expire we request an updated
certificate, and check a Requested box. After the new certificate
arrives
(or when we receive a certificate from a new vendor) we check the
Received
box. One or the other of these is always checked.
The certificate typically expires three years from the issue date.
A
year
(or two years) before the expiration date we need to get
confirmation
of
status. For this there is another pair of Requested/Received check
boxes.
For a new vendor we do not request confirmation until they have
been a
vendor for at least a year, so these check boxes are both blank
until
the
first time we request confirmation.
I don't really have a use for the third category, although I
suppose
it
could be New Vendor or something of the sort. But I have to be
honest
that
I don't see the value of using an option group to control a pair of
check
boxes. In effect there would be redundant controls on the form.
Or
am I
missing something here? One part in particular that I don't
understand
is
"you can control them using a hidden check box for each field that
is
the
bound control."

"Klatuu" <Klatuu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3EA78EED-B135-4FF6-831F-06682EF84A53@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Triple state makes perfect sense for this. You say that they
cannot
be
the
same, but in some cases neither would be selected. Well, those
two
statements appear to contridictory, because neither selected
would
make
them
both uncheced. So, to have one or the other (but not both)
checked,
an
option group is exactly what you want. Now, you also want it so
that
neither
is checked. This is the Tripe State option where the value of
the
option
group is Null.

If the current situation is that you have two boolean fields
bound
to
the
current two check boxes, you can control them using a hidden
check
box
for
each field that is the bound control. The option group would not
be
bound,
but you can use its After Update event to set the values of the
hidden
check
boxes.

Select Case Me.opgTripleChoice
Case is Null
Me.chkOne = False
Me.chkTwo = False
Case is 0
Me.chkOne = True
Me.chkTwo = False
Case is 1
Me.chkOne = False
Me.chkTwo = True
End Select

You will also want to ensure the option group is Null for new
records
and
is
correctly set for existing records, so add this to the form's
Current
event:

If Me.NewRecord Then
Me.opgTripleChoice = Null
ElseIf Me.chkOne = True And Me.chkTwo = False Then
Me.optTripeChoice = 0
ElseIf Me.chkOne = False And Me.chkTwo = True Then
Me.optTripeChoice = 1
Else
Me.opgTripleChoice = Null
End If

"BruceM" wrote:

Triple-state doesn't make sense in this situation, but could
come
in
handy
some day. Thanks for the thought.

Do you see a way of simplifying and streamlining the coding?
Again,
it's
not a big deal, but I expect that anything I can learn for this
situation
will prove useful in the future.

"Rick B" <Anonymous> wrote in message
news:ORjhg6ArGHA.2232@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Just FYI, you can do what you are asking but, I have had a
case
in
the
past where I used a triple-state checkbox. Perhaps this will
suit
your
needs.

You change the field to a number field and it stores "-1" for
a
checked
value, "0" for an unchecked value, and Null for a grayed out
checkbox.

Again, this may or may not make sense for your particular
application,
but
it worked very well for us where we had an activity that was
either
performed, not yet performed and required, or not yet
performed
and
optional.


--
Rick B



"BruceM" <bamoob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23L40gxArGHA.1368@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have a form on which are two check boxes (bound to Yes/No
fields)
that
cannot both be the same value. Under some circumstances
neither
will
be
checked, so I don't think I can use an option group unless I
add


.

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