Re: Find a row in a table from a form

Responses inline.

"Harper" <harperwork18@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1150471645.426629.108040@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
First of all, I do not think I know all there is to know about Access,
by far. But saying right off the bat that my db is not normalized
without knowing everything that goes into it cuts off any discussion
about the original question because we have to spend post after post
arriving at the point where you see that yes my database is normalized.

Your description did not seem to be of a normalized database. People
pointed that out. How could they know that you were providing fragmentary
information? If somebody wants to know the best circular saw blade to use
for cutting sheetrock I could point them to a masonry blade or something,
but more likely I would point out that a circular saw probably is not the
best approach to cutting sheetrock. But maybe you need very thin strips for
some unusual reason, and a circular saw is in fact the best (or only)
option. In that case you should offer some additional explanation, because
any responsible advisor would point out that a utility knife or specially
designed handsaw is usually the tool of choice.

On the subject of those darn exams again, multiple students take the
same exam (I'm pretty sure I explained this) but they each have scores
all different and unique. I had a table that served as a sort of
junction table to exams and other things they had to do but it served
no purpose, because each record was unique. Its not like they either
had scores of 10, 20, 50, or 100 I could put in a table with a PK/FK
called "Exam_Scores." Sam has 1200, Charlene has 1340, Alice has 1101.
They are all different.

So you never want to see a listing of who took a particular test. Fine.

FYI
This "you may one day learn" is exactly what irritates me. Did you know
that I originally HAD a yes/no field called "deactivated" in my
licensed and unlicensed tables? That I never originally planned to move
and delete records? No.

You are correct. There was no way of knowing what you did not say.

There are reasons why I thought to go the other
way, maybe bad reasons, but as I search the discussion in the forums on
Access, I see that other people wanted to do the same thing (but they
got answers about using VBA, where I do not like to use code I don't
understand) without being admonished for it. Now, I would've been happy
to have been asked why I want to do it the latter way and not the
former, and I couldn't explained all my reasons, and then someone
perhaps could've been pointed them out as wrong reasons, and I'd come
away with a simple solution to my problem. But then someone comes along
and says "your db isn't normalized, here is the solution" with the same
&*#$&@#% relationships and tables I had in the first place.

Lynn's suggestion was very different from what you had posted, as I recall.

I did not "peevishly" remove my images. I took them down because I
figured no one would respond after what I said, and I was/am fine with
that.

Yeah. Right.


BruceM wrote:
From the quote that slaps at those who have responded I take it that you
are
aware this is a volunteer group. What puzzles me is your attittude
toward
volunteers. People who respond to questions do so out of interest in
Access, and from a wish to pass along what they have learned as others
helped them. Not every response is on target, but then neither is every
question. You may one day learn that it is rarely necessary to move
records
between tables, and it is almost always more work than the alternative.
Then again, it seems you have learned all there is to know.
On the subject of wasting time, if you had taken the time to read my
response you would know that my question was whether the same exam could
be
taken by multiple students, not whether each student took the same exam
repeatedly. One student --> many exams plus one exam --> many students
equals many-to-many.
I saw the relationships in the other posting before you peevishly pulled
the
screen shot. You certainly are making it about as difficult on yourself
as
you can.

"Harper" <harperwork18@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1150408908.863794.234440@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You know what? Screw it. Every point each of you has made is ALREADY
part of my database or ALREADY something I considered. The important
info is NOT that a student took an exam (and no, they don't take the
same exam multiple times) but WHAT score they had. So each student has
a 1:1 relationship to the licensure or (non)licensure information.

There are no many to many relationships.

Thanks anyway for wasting my time when I had a simple question that
begged a simple answer.

"Volunteerism works when you have qualified volunteers"
--A. Mutt


Harper wrote:
I did break out the tables into single-world entities (the students
have just the information you describe) but, though I can see what you
are saying about the problem with the exams, I am having a hard time
visualizing another way to set it up. Each student's scores need to be
recorded somewhere.

I will post two of the tables as images...asking a lot, here, but can
you tell me a little how you would change the structures?

http://accesshelpplease.blogspot.com/

BruceM wrote:
Does an exam involve more than one student? If so, the exam
information
should be stored once, not in the record of each student who takes
the
exam.
Further, if each student can take several exams, and each exam is
taken
by
several students, there are further considerations in setting up
table
relationships. A good general rule for tables is that a table
should
contain information about a single real-world entity. Name,
address,
phone,
Student ID, and so forth can be thought of as attributes of a
person.
An
exam does not fit into that category.
I agree with Lynn that your database does not seem to be normalized.
Queries, rather than multiple tables, are often the best way of
sorting
and
filtering data. If you insist on shuffling information between five
different tables you can probably find somebody who will tell you
how
to do
that, but you should also expect that the people who volunteer here
will try
to steer you away from an unsound design.

"Harper" <harperwork18@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1150398667.847545.228110@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Because there is a lot more to the data than simply where they are
licensed or not. There are exams and licensing numbers attached to
licensure; there are exams attached to an unlicensed student.

I have normalized the database and that is why the data is
separated
out.

Do you have a solution to the question I asked?


Lynn Trapp wrote:
Harper,
Why do you have different tables for this data? You should simply
place a
couple of boolean fields in your student table that identify
whether
or
not
the student is licensed or unlicensed and whether or not it is an
active
(archived) student.

--
Lynn Trapp
MS Access MVP
www.ltcomputerdesigns.com
Access Security: www.ltcomputerdesigns.com/Security.htm
Jeff Conrad's Access Junkie List:
http://home.bendbroadband.com/conradsystems/accessjunkie.html



"Harper" <harperwork18@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1150395999.754294.237510@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello,
I am making a database where there is a form where the user can
select
whether an education grad. student is unlicensed or licensed.
Nearing
the end of the program, their status does change (we hope) from
unlicensed to licensed. Also, the student's status may change
simply
because the user may have mistakenly assigned the wrong status.

I have table STUDENT, table LICENSED, table UNLICENSED, table
LICENSED_ARCHIVE, table UNLICENSED_ARCHIVE among others. In
form
STUDENT_ENTRY, I have a combo box with "unlicensed,"
"licensed,"
and
"unknown" and text boxes, one of which is IDNo (their student
id
number). The IDNo is the primary key through the tables.

When the user changes the combo box from one type of status to
another
(excluding "unknown," for which nothing happens), I would like
to
have
access 1.) look up the IDNo field, 2.) Find that IDNo in the
original
table, the table that corresponds to the status the student is
being
switched from 3.) Copy that row into table LICENSED_ARCHIVE or
UNLICENSED_ARCHIVE as the case may be 4.) Delete said row from
original
table.

I understand how to do an append query and delete query so I
have
3.
and 4. covered. But I am stuck at 1. and 2. I do not know VBA
so
if
there is some kind of solution I can understand using
expressions
or
whatnot, I'd be grateful.

Thanks much,
Harper






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