Re: are reports the primary end files not forms?

From: JimmyD (JimmyD_at_discussions.microsoft.com)
Date: 03/16/05 

Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:35:08 -0800

In the past month I have bought and read to my dismay 3 books gone to 5 or so
web pages and finally endedup here.
The data base I am making is a comprehensive individual/personnel one to be
used at my command. It will have alot of feild because in the Navy you don't
just do one thing. example- qualifications - at current command there are
watch station quals-10, firefighting quals- 13, safety quals-4, 3-M
quals-5possible, equiptment quals-10, (in differnt shops it varies), gun
quals-4, various (planner, plant quals etc-10) ok thats just the quals they
need a yes/no field and a date qualified field. Just Quals aprox 70 fields.
Now with education fields, previous and in Navy educations aprox 100 fields
for schools and scores,thats just two areas. We also have recall information
address, phone basic stuff then TAD assignments, Leave tracking shop manning
and ll of this information will be used in many reports. I can build tables
and I can Layout forms for entering the data in, not a problem. The only
thing Im trying to do because there are so many forms because of size limit
is coralate the forms from each section, so when I enter the name rate rank
ssn (basic Identity) into the first form that it automatically fills in the
feild in the same record of every form, so when the person entering data
opens any form to update data the can go right to that persons record and
they know for sure where to enter stuff.

Or should I be using the tables to enter all of my data in but that seems to
defeat the purpose of a GUI based data base. I Hope this clears up what I am
trying to do.

"John Vinson" wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:05:01 -0800, JimmyD
> <JimmyD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >ok Ive been having alot of problems with a monster data base first I had over
> >800 fields can't make tables that big had 4 tables, 20 forms and needed
> >approximatly 40 reports. each person working at the command needs one of each
> >forms assigned to them. was thinking that I needed all of their personal
> >information 20 fields in each form. Thinking that forms was the primary
> >viewing or end result, but Im wrong reports are the end result and primary
> >view right? So I think I need alot more tables witht the related information
> >corolated in each. But I still need a way to identify each form page to an
> >individual, is that done through sub-forms, quieres or relationships?
>
> I just want to agree with the other responses here.
>
> YOU ARE ON THE WRONG TRACK.
>
> If you are trying to store 800 fields in each record (which you cannot
> do in one table, of course, and should not do in multiple one-to-one
> tables); or if you're trying to combine multiple tables to create an
> 800 field report - *you're not using Access correctly*.
>
> Stop. Step back. Go to http://www.mvps.org/access and look for the
> tutorials on Normalization. Perhaps get one of the many good books on
> Access, such as John Viescas' _Running Access <version>_ or the
> _Access Bible_. It really sounds like you're confusing data
> *presentation* - forms and reports - with data *storage*. They are not
> the same; it's very easy when you're first getting into Access to look
> at the desired final output appearance and use it to design your
> tables, but that will almost surely give you a BADLY non-normalized
> database.
>
> You've posted a lot of problems here but you have not (that I have
> seen) described the nature of the data which you are storing. What are
> the Entities (real-life people, things, or events) of importance to
> your application? (Each type of Entity should have its own table).
> What are their Attributes (distinct, non-repeating, atomic bits of
> information about each entity)? How are the entities related?
>
> If you get the Table structures right to begin with (hint: a 30 field
> table is about as wide as you'll ever need to get), and do some study
> on using Forms, Subforms, combo boxes, and the other tools Access
> provides, then this may become a lot simpler to implement. If you have
> the data *stored* based on its logical structure, rather than on the
> layont of one particular type of printout, you'll have the flexibility
> to produce that printout *or any other desired printout*.
>
>
> John W. Vinson[MVP]
>

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