Re: A2007 ADPs

Sorry for the delay, I was away.

Passthrough queries can be good for complex reports but excerpt for the
cases when you need to have complex sub-reports, too. I don't remember
exactly but my guess is that trying to manage sub-reports with passthrough
queries is probably a very big hassle; particularly but not limited to the
cases when these sub-reports will flow/span over more than a single page.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)


"Guy" <Guy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:udVEZ8XrHHA.2152@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sylvain,

Sorry, was rushing out to lunch and wanted to finish my last posting
quickly.

You did make a very good point that you have the option to use passthrough
queries with an MDB and these are ideal for complex queries and reports
which are read-only.

I admit I had forgotten about this feature, not having done much MDB work
recently (being an ADPer).

I won't forget in future.

Your comments appreciated.

Cheers
Guy



"Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)>
wrote in message news:uF0Iy2VrHHA.4548@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
With your comment about MDB and crosstab reports against a SQL-Server,
you are hitting one of the main point of using passthrough queries.

When the schema of the database is not too complexe, ODBC linked tables
will work well because JET is able to translate sql queries into T-SQL
and execute them directly against SQL-Server. However, when these
queries become too complexe, JET can no longer do this and the
performance will drop like an airplane in flames. On many occasions,
it's with reports that you will be hit first with this problem first
because queries for reports are often (but not always) more complexe than
the queries for the forms. Because reports are read-only, the use of
passthrough queries are then a perfect solution.

However, if you add another level of complexity to your schema, queries
for the forms will become themselves too complexe and the speed of ODBC
linked tables will look like a turtle. Of course, there are solutions
to this (there is always some solution to a problem) but the simplicity
of using JET with ODBC linked tables is now gone. The only reason of
using JET when working against a SQL-Server is to remain inside its range
of simplicity. If you have to wander beyond that, the amount of work
required to redesign your schema and your forms to circumvent these
problems (if and only if these changes are acceptable to your client,
which is not always the case) make you loses any advantage of using JET
in comparaison of other solutions.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)


"Guy" <Guy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%236SCC3UrHHA.1172@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi All,

What a response... not sure who to respond to, but just to add another 2
cents worth based on my own on historical experience.

I've tried using Linked tables to both Oracle and SQL Server in A2/A95
and A97 and frankly the performance and reliability problems I
experienced were insurmountable. In one case I had quoted the client to
build a A97/SQL Server combination and after 4 weeks of issues (sorry
too long ago to give specific information) I gave up and used VB
instead. Now I accept that this was many versions of Access ago and I
hope that the problems I experienced have since been ironed out
(comments please), but as they say once your fingars have been burned...

The application I am currently upgrading was upsized, for performance,
reliability and scalability reasons, to an ADP from an MDB when A2000
appeared. Despite the initial agnst I incurred due to it being a new
"product" ie. the learning curve and bugs (I accept Dave that most have
now been corrected) the objective was eventually achieved and the
results have been and continue to be outstanding.

Frankly whilst I know some Access developers don't like ADP's, thinking
them inflexible, I think there terrific for your standard client/server
application.

The performance and reliability is as good as any VB6 (haven't used .NET
yet for client/server) application I've developed and once you know what
your doing easier and quicker too.

I recently developed a simple Financials Consolidation package for a
client using an MDB, the only issue was the volume of data involved and
the complexity of the few reports (all with 15/20 crosstab sub reports).
The performance however was less than startling (as in minutes to
generate each report). I upsized it to an ADP/SQL Server 2000 with all
the additional work involved in creating the crosstab queries and the
performance to generate each report went from minutes to sub 5 seconds.

Please convince me that Linked Tables work as well as an ADP.

Cheers
Guy




"Robert Morley" <rmorley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uU13OQUrHHA.4764@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It also addresses the need not to have to manually or programmatically
link every single table/view/SP/function that you need. You simply
open an ADP and they're all there. Accomplishing a similar feat in MDB
or ACCDB is a somewhat lengthier and more laborious process.

MS can recommend MDB or ACCDB all they want, but at the moment, ADP is
serving my needs far better.



Rob

"Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)>
wrote in message news:eOHHuAUrHHA.2152@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The only objective of ADP was to have the capability to directly bind
a passthrough query to a form and have it read/write instead of read
only, as it is actually the case with MDB.

With MDB against a sql-server, you have to use a passthrough query
when your design become too complicated or to slow but these queries
are read-only and cannot be binded directly to a form/report. ADP was
developed to correct this deficiency but beside this point, they have
done absolutely nothing beyond that. For example, it's impossible to
manipulate your insertings, updatings and deletings using stored
procedures or to control the refreshing of the current record with
anything but a primary key. I won't pass any comment on all the other
limitations.

From the point of view of a programmer working against a SQL-Server,
ADP is incredibly limited and offers nothing more than the possibility
of directly reading the result of a SP into a bound form; nothing
else. In comparaison to other database interface tools, MDB and ADP
are more like twins than anything else.

(Of course, I talking here about the use of bound forms and not about
the direct manipulation of ADO objects with VBA code; because you can
do the later as easily with MDB than with ADP or with any other
VBScript compatible language like ASP.).

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)


"David W. Fenton" <XXXusenet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Xns994D92A168426f99a49ed1d0c49c5bbb2@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam
please)> wrote in news:#Bc78dLrHHA.4624@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

ADP has been cancelled because it offers no real advantage over
MDB file but this conclusion is not based on performance but on
functionality. The capabilities of ADP are so closely related to
MDB that if you cannot do it with MDB, chances are high that you
cannot do it with ADP either.

I always felt that one of the chief motivations for creating the ADP
was the unreasonable prejudice among many outside the Access
community against Jet, either as data store or as data interface to
server back ends.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/












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